New Vasteras Logo

[boubabi 4,725]

1 minute ago, solas said:

(Side note: I'm pretty sure the font in the OP image is a condensed version of Copperplate Gothic, if that's what you were talking about @boubabi)

Yea something like that. But I feel like I saw the nearly exact typeface on another sport logo, not necessarily a VHL logo, but a sport logo. At first I thought maybe a 3rd jersey logo of the screaming eagles of cap breton but I can't find any of this. I'm still wondering what logo it reminds me of 

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Tyler said:

 

And the NFL is a real league with real financial needs so it actually matters having a team in places that can handle it.

 

this is a sim league made up of the community. In this case if enough people in the community want the team to move it shouldn't be held up by a blue team biased against the move.

 

Who said it would be? At what point did I say it would be? I don't like the argument, so my vote is against it. Nowhere did anyone state this is a monarchy and what I say goes. 

 

If the community numbers represented a desire to see Vasteras return I'd argue it would of by now. This is the first this has been brought up again seriously in quite a while tbh. 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

1 hour ago, Jonessee27 said:

 

 

 

One of my favourites. My buddies and I still quote it until this day.

[Tyler 885]

Just now, Devise said:

 

Who said it would be? At what point did I say it would be? I don't like the argument, so my vote is against it. Nowhere did anyone state this is a monarchy and what I say goes. 

 

If the community numbers represented a desire to see Vasteras return I'd argue it would of by now. This is the first this has been brought up again seriously in quite a while tbh. 

 

Bushito has been talking about moving the team for a solid month I figured he would have brought it up by  now

 

but even before that I wrote an MS about it a few months back and people were generally supportive. Idk it feels as if you'd have to be trying to avoid it to not have seen any of the discussion but I guess it depends to the degree Bushito has been promoting it.

[boubabi 4,725]

4 minutes ago, diamond_ace said:

Easy solution: see which option more people prefer across the league. Make a poll, but make sure it's advertised across the boards so as to maximize people casting a vote.

Vasteras fans, if you think most people want to go back, that's your chance to prove it.

Stockholm fans, if you think a larger and better known destination is the clear winner, then the vote should reflect that.

 

Both sides should be on board this idea, if you each truly believe what you preach.

if popularity vote would be a thing, we would have a team called Trainy McTrainface since day1

 

Anyway, as the first GM of the Stockholm Vikings, I feel like the team as done good since joining and is less of a "running gag" now. Easy to say that you would join the team at some time, but when it's time to actually make it happen, people bails out and join other teams for X/Y reasons

 

Some people might say they would love to join Vasteras, but other member also say they will never join Vasteras because of the reputation. As a GM, you can't start behind just because of the losing history of the team and pensfan

 

 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

inb4 @PensFan101 comes back from the dead to be the deciding vote to bring Vasteras back

[boubabi 4,725]

and lets be honest, my xm radios are the hottest thing in the league 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

1 minute ago, boubabi said:

if popularity vote would be a thing, we would have a team called Trainy McTrainface since day1

 

Anyway, as the first GM of the Stockholm Vikings, I feel like the team as done good since joining and is less of a "running gag" now. Easy to say that you would join the team at some time, but when it's time to actually make it happen, people bails out and join other teams for X/Y reasons

 

Some people might say they would love to join Vasteras, but other member also say they will never join Vasteras because of the reputation. As a GM, you can't start behind just because of the losing history of the team and pensfan

 

 

If the people in the league want Trainy McTrainface then we should arguably have Trainy McTrainface. The league is a game, played by its members, should the members not be the most important thing? (Also, I kind of don't think the vote would move them - I think Stockholm would win it, but a vote would prove exactly where the numbers lie, however that were to turn out. I'm not personally a Vasteras fan, I think Stockholm makes a lot more sense, but if that many people want Vasteras, I think it's in the interest of the league and its continual activity to support its member base).

 

As for starting from behind as a GM: we had two expansion teams. They started massively behind. They're now on about the same playing field as the other teams.

[Tyler 885]

5 minutes ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

inb4 @PensFan101 comes back from the dead to be the deciding vote to bring Vasteras back

 

 

 

pensfan when he sees the vote is tied

[boubabi 4,725]

2 minutes ago, diamond_ace said:

If the people in the league want Trainy McTrainface then we should arguably have Trainy McTrainface. The league is a game, played by its members, should the members not be the most important thing? (Also, I kind of don't think the vote would move them - I think Stockholm would win it, but a vote would prove exactly where the numbers lie, however that were to turn out. I'm not personally a Vasteras fan, I think Stockholm makes a lot more sense, but if that many people want Vasteras, I think it's in the interest of the league and its continual activity to support its member base).

 

As for starting from behind as a GM: we had two expansion teams. They started massively behind. They're now on about the same playing field as the other teams.

I don't see where does team started behind. Actually, I think people had a lot of hype joining those team when they first started.  The reality is, QC and Cologne had a hard time afterward winning cups and bringing FA. I wouldn't say it's a huge success 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Move all teams to North America. 5 teams in Canada, 5 in the US.

 

Who's with me???????

[boubabi 4,725]

Just now, Fire Hakstol said:

Move all teams to North America. 5 teams in Canada, 5 in the US.

 

Who's with me???????

nobody. EU is nice

 

where would we find our weed if every team was in NA ? 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

1 minute ago, boubabi said:

nobody. EU is nice

 

where would we find our weed if every team was in NA ? 

Vancouver @DollarAndADream has the good stuff

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Just now, boubabi said:

I don't see where does team started behind. Actually, I think people had a lot of hype joining those team. The reality is, QC and Cologne had a hard time winning cups and bringing FA

But they eventually did. GMing isn't supposed to be easy, and the expansion guys knew what they were getting into. No one argued they didn't have a "hard time" in fact I was arguing that they did. The point was that it's possible to overcome a deficit as a GM. The deficit the expansion teams faced was far greater than the deficit Vasteras would face, were it to come back. Yet they still managed to do it, and are now virtually indistinct from the non-expansion teams. Difficulty of GM simply isn't an argument against seeing where the fan base lies.

Again though, I don't actually think Vasteras would win the vote, but in the interest of fairness, it's not hard to just do a vote and see what happens. From there, if I'm proven wrong and the majority actually do want Vasteras, then we should have Vasteras. If the majority want Stockholm, then it ends the pro-Vasteras people's argument because they've had a fair shot, and we don't have to hear about this again.

[boubabi 4,725]

1 minute ago, diamond_ace said:

But they eventually did. GMing isn't supposed to be easy, and the expansion guys knew what they were getting into. No one argued they didn't have a "hard time" in fact I was arguing that they did. The point was that it's possible to overcome a deficit as a GM. The deficit the expansion teams faced was far greater than the deficit Vasteras would face, were it to come back. Yet they still managed to do it, and are now virtually indistinct from the non-expansion teams. Difficulty of GM simply isn't an argument against seeing where the fan base lies.

Again though, I don't actually think Vasteras would win the vote, but in the interest of fairness, it's not hard to just do a vote and see what happens. From there, if I'm proven wrong and the majority actually do want Vasteras, then we should have Vasteras. If the majority want Stockholm, then it ends the pro-Vasteras people's argument because they've had a fair shot, and we don't have to hear about this again.

We already had this sort of talk when Vasteras moved to stockholm

 

we can't have this sort of voting every now and then, it won't work

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Just now, boubabi said:

We already had this sort of talk when Vasteras moved to stockholm

 

we can't have this sort of voting every now and then, it won't work

If you're confident Stockholm would win, then you shouldn't be afraid to test that.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Also, I'll put it on record right now I'm voting for Stockholm if it does happen. It makes more sense as a location. I'm simply arguing that it should at least be worthy of finding out where people fall, rather than dismissing it out of hand.

[boubabi 4,725]

3 minutes ago, diamond_ace said:

If you're confident Stockholm would win, then you shouldn't be afraid to test that.

I don't and I wouldn't care really. I just don't see the need to do it, or the reason behind it.

 

It would start with the Vikings, then the Bears then the Wranglers and on and on. Plus, it's also unrealistic to give a vote to people who don't care about the franchise or don't plan to do anything about it. Like my vote to relocate the bears (as an exemple) isn't important considering that I don't care about the bears at all. 

 

And that's why we have a BoG and a Blue team in place, to take those sort of decisions for us 

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, diamond_ace said:

If you're confident Stockholm would win, then you shouldn't be afraid to test that.

 

Eh. I don't think it necessarily means that. But we also shouldn't be giving in to every single temper tantrum when someone wants the league changed x, so hey we have to bring it to a vote. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case in this instance, but someone isn't just able to force us to call a vote on a particular issue just because they made a stink about it. It's now how we operate. A big reason for that is because members can then manipulate when and where they raise stinks, trying to optimize for manipulating votes when members who may be around and deserve a voice, are busy or haven't seen something. It also creates a situation where we think we can just re challenge every issue after it's already been settled.

 

If the pro-vasteras people would agree that if the vote goes pro stockholm that the issue then remains dead, period. Absolutely. Vote away and I'll support it regardless of how it goes. 

[BOOM 8,764]

We are ready to host down here.

 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

Eh. I don't think it necessarily means that. But we also shouldn't be giving in to every single temper tantrum when someone wants the league changed x, so hey we have to bring it to a vote. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case in this instance, but someone isn't just able to force us to call a vote on a particular issue just because they made a stink about it. It's now how we operate. A big reason for that is because members can then manipulate when and where they raise stinks, trying to optimize for manipulating votes when members who may be around and deserve a voice, are busy or haven't seen something. It also creates a situation where we think we can just re challenge every issue after it's already been settled.

 

If the pro-vasteras people would agree that if the vote goes pro stockholm that the issue then remains dead, period. Absolutely. Vote away and I'll support it regardless of how it goes. 

I think if both sides of the argument can agree to the part in bold, this makes a lot of sense to do, and would keep the issue at bay in the future.

As for your initial point, maybe a minimum number of people to support an issue before it becomes brought up for debate? Something like 5 initially vocal members, to narrow down things where it's just 1-2 guys throwing a stink.

[TurnDaddy 323]

27 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

One of my favourites. My buddies and I still quote it until this day.

Same here haha. 

[Tyler 885]

8 minutes ago, BOOM said:

We are ready to host down here.

 

 

cant even tell if that's a kangaroo or a really pissed off rabbit

[diamond_ace 3,112]

That said I also just thought of a loophole: people who have certain permissions might be able to vote multiple times etc. Not sure what all is true with regards to that, and to be honest I trust many of our power position members not to do it (for example, I know Devise in particular would never even consider doing this, he's just a better person than that), but we certainly know there are some people who would (although many are without permissions) so it would remain to be seen if the vote was accurate on a forum such as this. It's something to consider (and let's keep individual accusations out of it, please).

[Devise 4,475]

6 minutes ago, diamond_ace said:

As for your initial point, maybe a minimum number of people to support an issue before it becomes brought up for debate? Something like 5 initially vocal members, to narrow down things where it's just 1-2 guys throwing a stink.

 

Too formal, too black and white. While we do have some formal set of rules, there are multiple things we leave open to situation and context due to various reasons. In this case, what is to prevent someone from going over to the SHL or insert other league here and get a few people to create accounts and sign up just in an effort to raise stinks, get votes in, and cause changes for their own personal reasons. 

 

Before anything ever comes to a vote, we've always looked at the merits of the arguments and the movement behind it, and then weighed all that in the BoG before getting final Blue Team approval/clean up and it being announced. If an issue in question has enough merit, and makes it through all the prodding, obviously whether or not it has strong member support across the board matters.

 

But keep in mind, in the nature of context how an issue is raised also can be a factor. That is where this kind of bugs I know not just me but a few of the other Blue members who mentioned it to me privately. Bushito didn't ask, he just started renaming things to the Vasteras Iron Eagles in his post before someone had to tell him. Instead of treating a vote like it's binding, create a fan590 with a poll seeing if the members want it and sent a formal relocation proposal in to Blue/BoG for us to debate. At that point we'd have the raw numbers of people interested, and then we'd start factoring all that in the debate process. When you just do something, then whine about how it should be this way, it come across way more biased than I'd argue @Tyler was accusing me off. I'm not unwilling to hear the arguments, only stating here that I don't generally agree with them. I really don't see a big reason to relocate a single team right now honestly. Like when the question comes up to me from users from time to time, the only one I advocate for or an would be more open to doing is Riga to Moscow.