Time for a change in simming

[diacope 1,696]

14 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Sure but within reason. In a GM messes up are we expected to delay the entire sim by a day while they fix their mistake and make everyone else suffer because they screwed up? There's a certain degree of responsibility from all sides and GM's know this.

 

Sure nobody would complain as long as it doesn't happen every time, if it does.. Fire them!

[Beketov 9,025]

1 minute ago, 16z said:

 

Sure nobody would complain as long as it doesn't happen every time, if it does.. Fire them!

A lot of people would complain actually. Because unless I know the intention of 16 GM’s simultaneously I have no way of knowing if things are wrong in their lines. This means the aim goes through and we only find out about it afterward which would mean re-sims. Those are a pain in STHS, you can’t just do certain games, you have to do them all. So now 15 other teams have their perfectly fine sim screwed up because 1 GM didn’t do their job correctly.

 

This is why it’s a GM’s job to do things correctly and on them if they don’t, because it doesn’t just affect them.

[frescoelmo 1,276]

 

Damn I didn't get 1...  Google is rigged.

[Tagger 2,722]

My thoughts on transparency in sims: Yes, absolutely. We've got the technology, let's do our best to eliminate any doubts about the simming process.

 

My thoughts on the accusations: I'll admit, I have my suspicions, and it's not based just on Beketov winning awards. Just focusing on awards provides no real context because, at the end of the day, Beketov is a member who earns a lot of TPE and has proven before he started simming that he's capable of making players that win awards. Typically before he started simming, Thompson was winning awards solely down to the ridiculous number of shots he was putting up. I seem to remember one season (probably Season 62), where he had over 800 shots and let's face it, if you have that many shots, you're going to score a lot of goals regardless of how many go in. 

 

My suspicions focus on those seasons where he didn't have a high volume of shots, yet still managed to find himself very near the top, if not at the top. The two main examples of this are Season 68 and Season 72. 

 

Season 68 was Thompson's final season in the league and he was after goals, that much was apparent. But in reality, Malmo was not a team that was able to give Thompson the volume of shots that he'd had previously, as he was all the way down in 17th in total shots, and had over 100 shots less than the top three players in shots. Regardless, Thompson did the incredibly improbable and managed to record an 18.75% shooting percentage and take home the goal-scoring title comfortably. How incredibly improbable was this? Well, prior to this season, the previous shooting percentage record for a player who was in the Top 50 in points was 16.02% (Lars Berger), and that was set all the way back in Season 20, so to not only break a record that stood for that long, but to also break it in such convincing fashion was unfathomable really.

 

The anomalies carry over to the Nighthawks as a team who collectively struggled to shoot (2nd lowest shot totals in the league) and weren't exactly playing elite defense (mid-table in shots against, but were only 30 shots off of having the third most shots allowed in the league whereas they conceded 100 shots more than the Seattle Bears, who were the other team in the mid-table of shots against). Along with that, they didn't have a particularly standout season from their goalie Michael Johnson, whose .917% was average for a goalie that season. Yet they still won the Victory Cup despite having over 150 less shots for than shots against, making them the only Victory Cup winning team in the trackable indexes to win the Victory Cup despite having a lower number of shots than the number of shots they faced. Along with that, they actually had the highest point differential in the league, despite the fact they were the third worst team in the league in shot differential. 

 

There isn't as much to Season 72 as Season 68, but it was another instance of Beketov's player (this time Lahtinen) defying the odds that no other player that I can recall has ever really challenged by getting close to the Brooks trophy without having the shot totals to realistically think about competing. This time Lahtinen was way further down in the shooting rankings, all the way down in 49th in total shots, yet somehow managed to finish second in goals. For the second time in three seasons of Beketov simming a season with a player on the first two lines of a team, Beketov's player (and a different one at that) broke Lars Berger's 16.02% shooting percentage mentioned earlier with a 17.45% shooting percentage. Again, not just scraping over the record, but a sizeable leap over it. 

 

This is just my stats in an easy to compile area.

 

Again, the fact that Beketov is winning awards isn't a reason to suspect questionable sims, but looking at the anomalies that have cropped up in these sims do make me question the validity of them for the first time in 40-odd seasons. 

[diacope 1,696]

41 minutes ago, Beketov said:

A lot of people would complain actually. Because unless I know the intention of 16 GM’s simultaneously I have no way of knowing if things are wrong in their lines. This means the aim goes through and we only find out about it afterward which would mean re-sims. Those are a pain in STHS, you can’t just do certain games, you have to do them all. So now 15 other teams have their perfectly fine sim screwed up because 1 GM didn’t do their job correctly.

 

This is why it’s a GM’s job to do things correctly and on them if they don’t, because it doesn’t just affect them.

 

Well I guess yeah if it's every team at once that would be impossible throughout a full season, but you admit that sims have been passed through all these seasons numerous times and nothing has been done to change it? A reminder would be good, who doesn't check a notification? This is where some of the conflict is coming from because it either helps players that know more about the engine and the forumers that have no clue how anything works seem to have a bad first career. Yes I know it again is on the player to ask questions but come on we can't blame it on one party, we are all in it together right?

[Quik 4,113]

12 minutes ago, Tagger said:

My thoughts on transparency in sims: Yes, absolutely. We've got the technology, let's do our best to eliminate any doubts about the simming process.

 

My thoughts on the accusations: I'll admit, I have my suspicions, and it's not based just on Beketov winning awards. Just focusing on awards provides no real context because, at the end of the day, Beketov is a member who earns a lot of TPE and has proven before he started simming that he's capable of making players that win awards. Typically before he started simming, Thompson was winning awards solely down to the ridiculous number of shots he was putting up. I seem to remember one season (probably Season 62), where he had over 800 shots and let's face it, if you have that many shots, you're going to score a lot of goals regardless of how many go in. 

 

My suspicions focus on those seasons where he didn't have a high volume of shots, yet still managed to find himself very near the top, if not at the top. The two main examples of this are Season 68 and Season 72. 

 

Season 68 was Thompson's final season in the league and he was after goals, that much was apparent. But in reality, Malmo was not a team that was able to give Thompson the volume of shots that he'd had previously, as he was all the way down in 17th in total shots, and had over 100 shots less than the top three players in shots. Regardless, Thompson did the incredibly improbable and managed to record an 18.75% shooting percentage and take home the goal-scoring title comfortably. How incredibly improbable was this? Well, prior to this season, the previous shooting percentage record for a player who was in the Top 50 in points was 16.02% (Lars Berger), and that was set all the way back in Season 20, so to not only break a record that stood for that long, but to also break it in such convincing fashion was unfathomable really.

 

The anomalies carry over to the Nighthawks as a team who collectively struggled to shoot (2nd lowest shot totals in the league) and weren't exactly playing elite defense (mid-table in shots against, but were only 30 shots off of having the third most shots allowed in the league whereas they conceded 100 shots more than the Seattle Bears, who were the other team in the mid-table of shots against). Along with that, they didn't have a particularly standout season from their goalie Michael Johnson, whose .917% was average for a goalie that season. Yet they still won the Victory Cup despite having over 150 less shots for than shots against, making them the only Victory Cup winning team in the trackable indexes to win the Victory Cup despite having a lower number of shots than the number of shots they faced. Along with that, they actually had the highest point differential in the league, despite the fact they were the third worst team in the league in shot differential. 

 

There isn't as much to Season 72 as Season 68, but it was another instance of Beketov's player (this time Lahtinen) defying the odds that no other player that I can recall has ever really challenged by getting close to the Brooks trophy without having the shot totals to realistically think about competing. This time Lahtinen was way further down in the shooting rankings, all the way down in 49th in total shots, yet somehow managed to finish second in goals. For the second time in three seasons of Beketov simming a season with a player on the first two lines of a team, Beketov's player (and a different one at that) broke Lars Berger's 16.02% shooting percentage mentioned earlier with a 17.45% shooting percentage. Again, not just scraping over the record, but a sizeable leap over it. 

 

This is just my stats in an easy to compile area.

 

Again, the fact that Beketov is winning awards isn't a reason to suspect questionable sims, but looking at the anomalies that have cropped up in these sims do make me question the validity of them for the first time in 40-odd seasons. 

 

So, this is obviously a lot of text. Basically, the easiest way to know that rigging isn't happening, especially on a player level, is the insane amount of hoops one would have to go through to ensure it.

 

Without uploading the files, there is no way to actually see player stats, as far as I'm aware. So for Bek, or anyone, for that matter, to rig it in such a way to ensure their player is thriving, they'd need to create multiple saves, upload, and then start over however many times to ensure they got a result they want.

 

Team wins would be one thing, but individual success would require so much effort that there's no way it would go unnoticed, much less be worth the time and effort to succeed in a fictional hockey league. We are all here to have fun and enjoy the league/community. Those of us in staff positions are volunteers who are giving our time to ensure the league continues to function in a way that is enjoyable for everyone here. There is literally no benefit to us to "rig" this league when all that would end up in is a dead league that nobody wants to be a part of, it's happened to many leagues before.

[Beketov 9,025]

19 minutes ago, Tagger said:

My thoughts on transparency in sims: Yes, absolutely. We've got the technology, let's do our best to eliminate any doubts about the simming process.

 

My thoughts on the accusations: I'll admit, I have my suspicions, and it's not based just on Beketov winning awards. Just focusing on awards provides no real context because, at the end of the day, Beketov is a member who earns a lot of TPE and has proven before he started simming that he's capable of making players that win awards. Typically before he started simming, Thompson was winning awards solely down to the ridiculous number of shots he was putting up. I seem to remember one season (probably Season 62), where he had over 800 shots and let's face it, if you have that many shots, you're going to score a lot of goals regardless of how many go in. 

 

My suspicions focus on those seasons where he didn't have a high volume of shots, yet still managed to find himself very near the top, if not at the top. The two main examples of this are Season 68 and Season 72. 

 

Season 68 was Thompson's final season in the league and he was after goals, that much was apparent. But in reality, Malmo was not a team that was able to give Thompson the volume of shots that he'd had previously, as he was all the way down in 17th in total shots, and had over 100 shots less than the top three players in shots. Regardless, Thompson did the incredibly improbable and managed to record an 18.75% shooting percentage and take home the goal-scoring title comfortably. How incredibly improbable was this? Well, prior to this season, the previous shooting percentage record for a player who was in the Top 50 in points was 16.02% (Lars Berger), and that was set all the way back in Season 20, so to not only break a record that stood for that long, but to also break it in such convincing fashion was unfathomable really.

 

The anomalies carry over to the Nighthawks as a team who collectively struggled to shoot (2nd lowest shot totals in the league) and weren't exactly playing elite defense (mid-table in shots against, but were only 30 shots off of having the third most shots allowed in the league whereas they conceded 100 shots more than the Seattle Bears, who were the other team in the mid-table of shots against). Along with that, they didn't have a particularly standout season from their goalie Michael Johnson, whose .917% was average for a goalie that season. Yet they still won the Victory Cup despite having over 150 less shots for than shots against, making them the only Victory Cup winning team in the trackable indexes to win the Victory Cup despite having a lower number of shots than the number of shots they faced. Along with that, they actually had the highest point differential in the league, despite the fact they were the third worst team in the league in shot differential. 

 

There isn't as much to Season 72 as Season 68, but it was another instance of Beketov's player (this time Lahtinen) defying the odds that no other player that I can recall has ever really challenged by getting close to the Brooks trophy without having the shot totals to realistically think about competing. This time Lahtinen was way further down in the shooting rankings, all the way down in 49th in total shots, yet somehow managed to finish second in goals. For the second time in three seasons of Beketov simming a season with a player on the first two lines of a team, Beketov's player (and a different one at that) broke Lars Berger's 16.02% shooting percentage mentioned earlier with a 17.45% shooting percentage. Again, not just scraping over the record, but a sizeable leap over it. 

 

This is just my stats in an easy to compile area.

 

Again, the fact that Beketov is winning awards isn't a reason to suspect questionable sims, but looking at the anomalies that have cropped up in these sims do make me question the validity of them for the first time in 40-odd seasons. 

Just curious, why have have the top 50 thing in there? Doesn’t that just skew it? If I recall in S68 the record was actually beaten twice since Van Lagen had a 17.69. It was a weird season in General for shoot percentages and I wish I could explain it. Hell I wish I could replicate it.

 

Of note just skimming through as well, top in the league in S70 was a 16.50 and 2nd in S72 was 16.67. Point is I wonder if some seasons the percentages were just been a bit elevated from expansion maybe? Not sure.

[Spartan 4,402]

1 hour ago, 16z said:

 

 

Yeah they do work hard and I don't want this to come across as complaining. I'm trying to say doesn't the league care about having the best results possible?

As much as I sympathize with this thought process, the whole point of WJC is to learn. You forgot to copy all lines and the resulting sim didn't go how you wanted? Now you know, you've learned from the mistake. The league would love the best results possible, although that's a pretty subjective thing to really figure out. However, it is the responsibility of the GM to make sure that what they're sending in is appropriate - that is one of the requirements of the job. The GM (and maybe the AGM) is the sole person responsible for making sure lines are sent in properly. If the simmer doesn't use the right lines, then we have an issue as has been explained so far. But it's on the GM to make sure what they send in is proper by their own standards.

[Eynhallow 412]

3 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Just curious, why have have the top 50 thing in there? Doesn’t that just skew it? If I recall in S68 the record was actually beaten twice since Van Lagen had a 17.69. It was a weird season in General for shoot percentages and I wish I could explain it. Hell I wish I could replicate it.

 

Of note just skimming through as well, top in the league in S70 was a 16.50 and 2nd in S72 was 16.67. Point is I wonder if some seasons the percentages were just been a bit elevated from expansion maybe? Not sure.

That could also depend on the quality of the goalies and how well teams defend in general.

[Quik 4,113]

5 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Just curious, why have have the top 50 thing in there? Doesn’t that just skew it? If I recall in S68 the record was actually beaten twice since Van Lagen had a 17.69. It was a weird season in General for shoot percentages and I wish I could explain it. Hell I wish I could replicate it.

IIRC, it was an extroardinarily weak year for goalies?

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, Eynhallow said:

That could also depend on the quality of the goalies and how well teams defend in general.

That too. Essentially it’s more cherry picked stats. I don’t think @Tagger means anything by it but the point is that there are a lot of variables and even in seasons where I had a good shoot% so did other players. In addition years I scored plenty I had a shit shoot%. 

[frescoelmo 1,276]