Time for a change in simming

[Eynhallow 412]

This thread sure alleviated the late/post season doldrums !!!   

[Jericho 917]

54 minutes ago, ATST said:

Regardless of the OP there needs to be a change. we all agree on that I think. 

but when people are giving legitimate ideas all we get back is "we dont trust" or "old people = busy/cant" and none of those are helpful to trying to ease this situation. it comes off as deflecting. I get it wont happen right away but a simple "hey we are taking the ideas to heart" instead of pushing them off might go a long way. that's all I'm coming from. 

 

 

Ok NEEDS to be a change is maybe a little premature. It's worth talking about, the necessity is not really established yet.

 

You're being a little choosy if you think Bek saying "Hey there's like legit damage that can be done if we let just anyone have access to the sim engine it has admin powers that can fuck things" reduces down to "We don't trust". That's a legit issue that would need to be solved before giving out simming privileges to anyone, which is why changes in simmer have been chosen ver carefully over the years. You're being a little intentionally reductionist here. You seem to have glossed over a bunch of bullshit on Gorlab's behalf but are really stuck on some of the criticisms with a few pretty poorly thought out reasons. "Old people = busy/can't" was a response to "There's clearly no good reason we wouldn't do this ever under any circumstances".

 

Again there's merit to the concept in general, but pushback is also totally fine. "None of those are helpful in trying to ease the situation" is kind of silly when the first take was a wild and baseless accusation at Bek's character. That sure as fuck wasn't helpful or trying to ease any situation.

[Ty343 67]

The future generations will know that I was a part of this thread now

[Kachur 112]

19 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

 

Ok NEEDS to be a change is maybe a little premature. It's worth talking about, the necessity is not really established yet.

 

You're being a little choosy if you think Bek saying "Hey there's like legit damage that can be done if we let just anyone have access to the sim engine it has admin powers that can fuck things" reduces down to "We don't trust". That's a legit issue that would need to be solved before giving out simming privileges to anyone, which is why changes in simmer have been chosen ver carefully over the years. You're being a little intentionally reductionist here. You seem to have glossed over a bunch of bullshit on Gorlab's behalf but are really stuck on some of the criticisms with a few pretty poorly thought out reasons. "Old people = busy/can't" was a response to "There's clearly no good reason we wouldn't do this ever under any circumstances".

 

Again there's merit to the concept in general, but pushback is also totally fine. "None of those are helpful in trying to ease the situation" is kind of silly when the first take was a wild and baseless accusation at Bek's character. That sure as fuck wasn't helpful or trying to ease any situation.

ok

Edited February 22, 2021 by ATST

[BarzalGoat 728]

There's probably a lot of confirmation bias here, seems Gorlab set out to prove that Bek was guilty before it even started, and then cherry picked stats to make his point. BOG should close this thread (now that I've made my part of history) and create a separate one for the thunder dome-like discussion of whether the way simming the league should be changed.... At the end of the day it should be a decision which the community should have input in, but is made by the blues we know and love.

[diacope 1,561]

This isn't an issue of dragging Bek through the mud but I agree he shouldn't be the only person used as an example to amplify the situation because it ultimately puts the other side of the discussion in defense and we get no where. Look past all those bushes and trees we see a member, Gorlab, bring this up multiple times in the past but get shutdown and everybody who agrees with him are lunatics. 

 

It's simple, he might have his own personal opinions about the situation but the league needs to be more transparent in the future because anybody can make a claim at anytime with how shit the STHS engine is, giving us more complaining and headaches during the season. This isn't the first time I bet and wont be the last if the same shit continues and the people who actually agree with this sit on the sidelines unhappy. For the people say do your own research, I have and I'm a big on having a simulation go through on one attempt because that's what sims are right, for example: if I screw up during a Be A GM season I reset everything because the results were skewed.

 

What could happen are live sims and I don't really care to watch one myself but having a few other mangers in chat will help, I don't think the staff are actually rigging games or writing a story because like Jericho said before who has the fucking time.. I mean re-simulations, errors in line ups or anything that could change the game really and is adjusted by the staff, could even keep the previous sim on the forum without editing it? Just something more so the league feels like they are more involved with the simulations instead of a very active ghost doing his thing in the dark.

[Spartan 4,002]

MOSCOW MOSCOW MOSCOW 

 

I'm going back to sleep.

[boubabi 4,725]

Nowadays, you can get softwares that automatically publishes on a cloud your recordings. There's no reason why it cant be done.

 

Good thread gorlab, bringing the fire again

 

Still dunno why the simming isnt automated. Get it done nerds

Edited February 22, 2021 by boubabi

[Lefty_S 91]

6 hours ago, Beketov said:

I don’t know if you’ve ever used teamviewer but it’s laggy and in a small window and doesn’t allow you to do quite everything as you normally would.

can confirm, teamviewer is ass

[Beketov 8,646]

3 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Still dunno why the simming isnt automated. Get it done nerds

I would love that. Save me the time and effort + make it impossible to say anyone cheated. Sadly it’s a pipe dream with how STHS is built as far as I’m aware.

[Sixersfan594 247]

SHL had/started live simming for playoffs about 6-7 years ago when I simmed there. Doubt anyone would rig a full regular season that's just a shit ton of work to do over the course of many weeks and would be annoying to re-do over and over again. Also STHS is a shit engine with inconsistencies like crazy so patterns really don't mean much. Finally the simmers players do well because they actually put in work, know the engine and work their asses off so they will obviously build better players than 99.9% of every league. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Sixersfan594

[boubabi 4,725]

Y'all have the ressources to make it possible. STHS didnt reinvent programming. If it triggers a command and outputs a file, anything is possible. Get in touch with that freaking Simon and ask for his input, even if it costs money

[Beketov 8,646]

6 minutes ago, Sixersfan594 said:

SHL had/started live simming for playoffs about 6-7 years ago when I simmed there. Doubt anyone would rig a full regular season that's just a shit ton of work to do over the course of many weeks and would be annoying to re-do over and over again. Also STHS is a shit engine with inconsistencies like crazy so patterns really don't mean much. Finally the simmers players do well because they actually put in work, know the engine and work their asses off so they will obviously build better players than 99.9% of every league. 

We’ve been live simming playoffs since at least S67 if not a bit earlier.

 

3 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Y'all have the ressources to make it possible. STHS didnt reinvent programming. If it triggers a command and outputs a file, anything is possible. Get in touch with that freaking Simon and ask for his input, even if it costs money

We’ve tried. We would basically need the source code and he won’t give that to us no matter how much money we offer him. He also won’t do any custom modifications (paid or otherwise) so that it could run server side.

[Seabass 593]

This trend is worrisome thanks for bringing this to our attention @gorlab

[Eynhallow 412]

After reading the last few posts, I kinda/sorta got the impression that some folks don't like that STHS is not predictable:

 

"Also STHS is a shit engine with inconsistencies like crazy so patterns really don't mean much"

and

"anybody can make a claim at anytime with how shit the STHS engine is, giving us more complaining and headaches during the season. This isn't the first time I bet and wont be the last if the same shit continues and the people who actually agree with this sit on the sidelines unhappy."

 

But isn't that by design...I mean if the output was more predictable, what fun would that be.  The engine apparently is supposed to simulate real games....well...in RL any given day can result in an upset, and in fact do.  (see Ottawa vs Leafs....Leafs lose 6 - 5 after holding a 5 - 1 lead.)

Edited February 22, 2021 by Eynhallow
spelling

[Phil 5,017]

This thread shall be rechristened:

 

Inductive vs Deductive Reasoning. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beketov 8,646]

3 minutes ago, Eynhallow said:

After reading the last few posts, I kinda/sorta got the impression that some folks don't like that STHS is not predictable:

 

"Also STHS is a shit engine with inconsistencies like crazy so patterns really don't mean much"

and

"anybody can make a claim at anytime with how shit the STHS engine is, giving us more complaining and headaches during the season. This isn't the first time I bet and wont be the last if the same shit continues and the people who actually agree with this sit on the sidelines unhappy."

 

But isn't that by design...I mean if the output was more predictable, what fun would that be.  The engine apparently is supposed to simulate real games....well...in RL any given day can result in an upset, and in fact do.  (see Ottawa vs Leafs....Leafs lose 6 - 5 after holding a 5 - 1 lead.)

I’ve been trying to nail that home to people for years but ultimately people don’t like losing, especially if on paper they should win, so they’ll gladly blame the engine being bad instead of accepting that some random is good.

[Eynhallow 412]

10 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I’ve been trying to nail that home to people for years but ultimately people don’t like losing, especially if on paper they should win, so they’ll gladly blame the engine being bad instead of accepting that some random is good.

If things were predictable, wouldn't this whole sim thing be pretty damned boring.

 

[diacope 1,561]

26 minutes ago, Eynhallow said:

After reading the last few posts, I kinda/sorta got the impression that some folks don't like that STHS is not predictable:

 

"Also STHS is a shit engine with inconsistencies like crazy so patterns really don't mean much"

and

"anybody can make a claim at anytime with how shit the STHS engine is, giving us more complaining and headaches during the season. This isn't the first time I bet and wont be the last if the same shit continues and the people who actually agree with this sit on the sidelines unhappy."

 

But isn't that by design...I mean if the output was more predictable, what fun would that be.  The engine apparently is supposed to simulate real games....well...in RL any given day can result in an upset, and in fact do.  (see Ottawa vs Leafs....Leafs lose 6 - 5 after holding a 5 - 1 lead.)

 

Although I do agree with the fact having a predictable sim engine would be terrible, I think this is more of an issue of being able to understand the results as a new member, being a manager who made a mistake submitting his line up or not getting a traded player on the roster in time for a must win match up which is giving favor to whoever is on the wrong side of the puck, nobodies to blame really. An example I can give was a mistake I made during the world juniors submitting my lines, forgot to copy all for the next how many games the simmer decided, yeah I was told after the fact but something needs to be done beforehand and the simmers should more focused on having the best sim they can have, again though STHS doesn't help with this so more simmers would be adequate. Yeah you guys have lives, I know that but after thinking about it more, having faster sims is something we don't really need and a more thought out approach like the updaters have would be much much better.

Edited February 22, 2021 by 16z

[Josh 1,600]

6 minutes ago, 16z said:

 

Although I do agree with the fact having a predictable sim engine would be terrible, I think this is more of an issue of being able to understand the results as a new member, being a manager who made a mistake submitting his line up or not getting a traded player on the roster in time for a must win match up which is giving favor to whoever is on the wrong side of the puck, nobodies to blame really. An example I can give was a mistake I made during the world juniors submitting my lines, forgot to copy all for the next how many games the simmer decided, yeah I was told after the fact but something needs to be done beforehand and the simmers should more focused on having the best sim they can have, again though STHS doesn't help with this so more simmers would be adequate. Yeah you guys have lives, I know that but after thinking about it more, having faster sims is something we don't really need and a more thought out approach like the updaters have would be much much better.

 

Just fyi you were told ahead of time. It was in the instructions.

 

[diacope 1,561]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

Just fyi you were told ahead of time. It was in the instructions.

 

 

But we both didn't know until the results were posted, I'm fine with it really just doesn't feel like I got to compete is all

[Beketov 8,646]

9 minutes ago, 16z said:

 

Although I do agree with the fact having a predictable sim engine would be terrible, I think this is more of an issue of being able to understand the results as a new member, being a manager who made a mistake submitting his line up or not getting a traded player on the roster in time for a must win match up which is giving favor to whoever is on the wrong side of the puck, nobodies to blame really. An example I can give was a mistake I made during the world juniors submitting my lines, forgot to copy all for the next how many games the simmer decided, yeah I was told after the fact but something needs to be done beforehand and the simmers should more focused on having the best sim they can have, again though STHS doesn't help with this so more simmers would be adequate. Yeah you guys have lives, I know that but after thinking about it more, having faster sims is something we don't really need and a more thought out approach like the updaters have would be much much better.

Simmers have enough responsibilities without having to hold the hand of every GM to be honest. GM’s focus on one team, we have to keep track of 16. If someone misses up their lines that’s on them. Obviously yeah if I forget to use them or I screw them up that’s a fair complaint but a GM doing something wrong isn’t the fault of the simmer.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

30 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I’ve been trying to nail that home to people for years but ultimately people don’t like losing, especially if on paper they should win, so they’ll gladly blame the engine being bad instead of accepting that some random is good.

 

I agree with that. For what it's worth, I've never done this. Like really never. Not even after 0-2 or 0-3 sims.

[diacope 1,561]

 

4 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Simmers have enough responsibilities without having to hold the hand of every GM to be honest. GM’s focus on one team, we have to keep track of 16. If someone misses up their lines that’s on them. Obviously yeah if I forget to use them or I screw them up that’s a fair complaint but a GM doing something wrong isn’t the fault of the simmer.

 

Yeah they do work hard and I don't want this to come across as complaining. I'm trying to say doesn't the league care about having the best results possible?

[Beketov 8,646]

22 minutes ago, 16z said:

 

 

Yeah they do work hard and I don't want this to come across as complaining. I'm trying to say doesn't the league care about having the best results possible?

Sure but within reason. In a GM messes up are we expected to delay the entire sim by a day while they fix their mistake and make everyone else suffer because they screwed up? There's a certain degree of responsibility from all sides and GM's know this.