Gustav 6,415 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Yeah, adding onto this... Do I think the tank logo was drawn up or voted for because our community supports Nazi Germany? Absolutely not. Do I think the logo was meant to represent Nazi Germany? Also no. Obviously, if you voted for it because you think it does, fuck off. But I would like to agree with the point that we shouldn't be representing Germany and mid-20th-century military technology with the same logo. The connection doesn't take a big leap of logic to make, even if it's unintentional. We changed the Mexico City logo because it wasn't meant to be insensitive, but it could certainly be interpreted as such. This is certainly the case here and I don't want to see it in the running anymore now that these points have been raised and I agree with them (and I should hope the league as a whole is able to reconsider the way the vote has gone here, as I have. I think I voted for Steel originally because I didn't like Foxes but never mind about that one). Advantage, fishy and Ledge 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage 2,891 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, GustavMattias said: Yeah, adding onto this... Do I think the tank logo was drawn up or voted for because our community supports Nazi Germany? Absolutely not. Do I think the logo was meant to represent Nazi Germany? Also no. Obviously, if you voted for it because you think it does, fuck off. But I would like to agree with the point that we shouldn't be representing Germany and mid-20th-century military technology with the same logo. The connection doesn't take a big leap of logic to make, even if it's unintentional. We changed the Mexico City logo because it wasn't meant to be insensitive, but it could certainly be interpreted as such. This is certainly the case here and I don't want to see it in the running anymore now that these points have been raised and I agree with them (and I should hope the league as a whole is able to reconsider the way the vote has gone here, as I have. I think I voted for Steel originally because I didn't like Foxes but never mind about that one). Yeah this is a better way to say what I was trying to say. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage 2,891 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Cologne - Germany Vasteras - Sweden Bratislava - Slovakia Turku/Lahti - Finland Bern - Switzerland Paris - France Done. There are only 6 teams so I'd like to see 6 countries represented. Edited June 17, 2021 by Advantage mattyIceman and Gustav 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaleebtheMighty 1,509 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Hey all, I just wanted to point out that my design with the tank was in no way shape or form trying to connect to Germany’s dark past. It was originally picked as the Iron because I was going off of Germany’s manufacturing, being they are one of the top nations in the world in that aspect besides China and the USA. I had a few different mock-ups and when discussing things initially in a panel, the tank looked cool! Again, that’s not the final logo, more of a concept for a team. And these names won’t be the for sure teams in the VHLE, they just get to hop into the final team vote (if I’m getting that right). I just want to make it perfectly clear that the design did not stem from negative connotations from nazi Germany. But I am more than happy to change the possible logo if it gives off that image. bigAL 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 27 minutes ago, KaleebtheMighty said: I just want to make it perfectly clear that the design did not stem from negative connotations from nazi Germany. But I am more than happy to change the possible logo if it gives off that image. Yeah I don't think anyone is specifically targeting you for making the design in bad taste. I think it's an important conversation as we are adding teams and logo's regularly enough for us to be having a conversation about. Especially considering as @GustavMattias points out we've had logo change issues due to implied meanings in the past. Ultimately I think regardless of any Germany connotation that the tank concept in and of itself is probably something that wouldn't be accepted in many major sports leagues around the world. Because of this I think it's important to make the distinction that the Germany aspect of the theme only makes it more of a no no. If you realistically thought about it, what sports team would ever allow a literal military tank to be their team logo? Again it's not to shirk the concept, it's just, feels a bit more "Esports for a game where you play with tanks" to remove any potential connection to the actual reality of what a tank is used for. Unlike the Sabres as well you can't really play that it's decorative or symbolic, because guns wouldn't be allowed on logo's either. It's connection to modern militaristic warfare is too surreal to be represented on any teams logo imo. It feels so weird because I was talking with Jericho about this after this conversation was brought up, and remarked how when I first saw the Steel tank logo you made I thought it was a cool and reminded me of the type of zaney over the top style you see in something like C&C Red Alert. I then also had to remember that the setup of that entire franchise is satirical in nature. So for those wondering why would I care about a tank in a sports logo vs someone playing say World of Tanks, it's really about the context. Sports logo's are seen as a celebration and a reflection of a City or Country, avoiding overly violent or militaristic symbology for that seems like a pretty good rule to follow wholesale being honest. mediocrepony 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigAL 2,176 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Devise said: what sports team would ever allow a literal military tank to be their team logo? avoiding overly violent or militaristic symbology for that seems like a pretty good rule to follow wholesale being honest I like that idea. I’m kinda shocked we all missed it until this point in the concept process. Sorry @KaleebtheMighty, I hope you can keep things in perspective and know the conversation is about the logo and not you. You made a cool looking drawing of a tank with badass colours, that doesn’t mean you’re bad or had any nefarious agenda. Hey remember the Washington Bullets in the NBA? That name got a bit awkward as gun violence got worse and worse in DC/US, so they rebranded to the Wizards (slightly less violent, although Gandalf and Harry Potter are pretty militaristic in their own rights). The same rule applies in the bigs: there’s enough violent militaristic euphemisms in sports that we don’t need to be so extra that our team is a literal killing machine in name, logo, or identity. mediocrepony 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaleebtheMighty 1,509 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Thanks @bigAL, and no I’m not taking it against myself or anything. I just want to make sure I clear that notion for my sake, I don’t want to cause anyone to leave the league over it or anything. Just one of those things that we missed identifying early in concept that now has come to light. Ricer13 and bigAL 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC15 340 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 To be clear, I'm not accusing anyone of any sympathizing for the Nazi cause. It's just a terrible idea to have a tank logo for Berlin (or probably anyone really) and am satisfied that we've had a chance to have a conversation and all agree it's off the table. bigAL, KaleebtheMighty and Eynhallow 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Yeah as another German I definitely agree with the people who voiced their concerns in here and think that this logo would be a bad idea. The design itself looks really good actually but I think it would be very tone-deaf if it were used for an actual team in the league. It's good to see that the people in charge seem to already have listened to the concerns that have been pointed out so that we can avoid this KaleebtheMighty 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyIceman 1,214 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Advantage said: Cologne - Germany Vasteras - Sweden Bratislava - Slovakia Turku/Lahti - Finland Bern - Switzerland Paris - France Done. There are only 6 teams so I'd like to see 6 countries represented. Switzerland and France have many options. I personally like going for smaller markets. Lausanne - Switzerland Chamonix - France Richer hockey histories. Maybe Mannheim instead of Cologne? Keeping the Express name surely Edited June 18, 2021 by MattyIce Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage 2,891 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, MattyIce said: Switzerland and France have many options. I personally like going for smaller markets. Lausanne - Switzerland Chamonix - France Richer hockey histories. Maybe Mannheim instead of Cologne? Keeping the Express name surely I dont see Cologne changing but the others are possibilities for sure. mattyIceman 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevo 792 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 i'll say this as someone actually living in Berlin: neither options are quite representative for the city. Germany's steel industry was located (or is, there's not much left though) on the opposite side of the country in the Ruhr area and foxes... well i haven't seen too many of them rory, BOOM, mediocrepony and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) On 6/15/2021 at 6:33 PM, Esso2264 said: i dont like the berlin logos Love u homie, but if its a real criticism, you gotta explain why and maybe recommand something. From a gfx/creative stand point, this brings the discussion no where other than negative energy Edited June 20, 2021 by boubabi rory and mattyIceman 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esso2264 774 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, boubabi said: Love u homie, but if its a real criticism, you gotta explain why and maybe recommand something. From a gfx/creative stand point, this brings the discussion no where other than negative energy its not real criticism tho mattyIceman 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyIceman 1,214 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Dat tank tho, its still a nice lookin tank. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunfish 72 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) I did see some criticism of the name Révolution. Personally, given my logo used a similar name, I'd argue that it's a name that holds enough of a threat and is also very much relevant for the region itself. As for not going with somewhere like Chamonix, Paris holds more relevance in terms of global importance than them, so it's easy to understand why they're an option. Edited June 20, 2021 by Thunfish Realized it wasn't my logo, oops. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
solas 1,951 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Paris Ennui tbhimo fishy 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor_7 741 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 @VictorShould use the Berlin name I was going to use for expansion Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/104786-vhle-poll-2-paris-and-berlin/page/2/#findComment-856521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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