A Scooter Suggestion(S)

[Bushito 1,945]

[Higgins 3,618]

Response to #4

 

10 season careers anyone??? Spending minimum of 3 seasons with your player on the team that drafts you is almost half your player career right there

 

Although it really fucks with a number of other things that we track over player careers.

[Devise 4,475]

1 hour ago, Da Trifecta said:

 

The charade he is putting on is pretty impressive despite the minor things that points him out.

 

Don't worry guys my parents still live in Blackfalds so I'll go find him and expose him.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

@Scooter types too well to be @Mr. Grumpy Bear.

[Devise 4,475]

10 hours ago, Scooter said:

I didn't say you are doing nothing as you've suggested, I said new members suggestions aren't taken seriously and not one has been since I got here in my opinion. You are trying to say I said zero things are being done in the league, that's not what I said at all.

 

12 hours ago, Scooter said:

Maybe an idea would be to see if you can integrate some things that new members would want. I see a lot of guys messaging and being welcoming in a PM never to be heard from again but virtually zero willing to actually take new members suggestions and wants and needs into account. I don't feel the decisions are made from a betterment of the league standpoint but more as a betterment of the senior members standpoint. There is literally zero effect from approving the relocation of a VHLM franchise. Raise one valid point against my suggestion. But it's met with bullshit excuses that were already solved in my original post. 

 

You used the word zero multiple times in that post. But are you under the impression that the changes we made had ZERO input from new members? Sorry that isn't the case. 

10 hours ago, Scooter said:

But I can take this league or leave it at this point, I'm just trying to give you a reasonable, fresh perspective.

 

Lastly. Your right, ideas that we've been debating off and on for seasons both publicly and behind the scenes and are trying to gauge whether or not the league determines if they are worthy of finding the right implementation is exactly the fresh perspective we've been missing.....  

 

Not a single fucking suggestion in this thread is "fresh".  Everything here has not only been debated before in the BoG and most also in other places. I'm not saying you shouldn't bring it up. Sure go for it. But to go and get this defensive when people did bring up legitimate counter points your way? That is our issue here. Our responses to you were courteous, and constructive. Statements such as "we've talked about this but implenetation is hard" or "we've talked about this but the majority of the league doesn't want it" are in fact legitimate counter points to some of your suggestions.

 

And has been said several times regarding VHLM relocation, there normally is more of a formal process for that, or any relocation. You seem to be under the impression though that the league as a whole determines relocation, when in fact that isn't the case. More often than not it's a GM as well as the Blue Team and sometimes BoG support that is required. Pretty much all the stuff you listed. Sorry we should probably formalise it, but since you don't seem to be aware there are larger issues at play in the VHLM discussions right now than franchise relocation. 

[Bushito 1,945]

Well you act as though I'm attacking the league with some of these responses and maybe you feel that way. But then again look at it from my side when you say things like "Not a single fucking suggestion in this thread is "fresh". How do I know that? I've been here for a month and I haven't seen half of what I typed up in my suggestions. Should I have access to BOG and blue team discussions? Should I know what you all are discussing behind the scenes as you put it? Really all I wanted was one TPE for my player but I also tried to put some thought into it. If I upset anyone I apologize, I am taking my leave from this shit show.

[Will 4,660]

I've actually suggested re-naming some VHL awards a few times. Don't think you need to go crazy and change everyone but I think there are for sure a good amount that are outdated with justifiable replacements. Usually that suggestion was met with...opposition. But the first step in that would be re-organized the career stats and all time lists as mentioned.

 

As far as grading goes.. we never going back to the old system. Maybe it was different in the early days but my perspective on the present has been nobody comes on the VHL to have their English language skills ripped apart. Obviously there is a still a bare minimum standard required, but as far as combing through every misplaced comma and docking points? I don't think that's necessary. Anyway writing wasn't even the worst of it, the old grading system was terrible for growing the graphics community - graphics were graded so harshly that someone who was trying to learn was just going to be losing TPE every point task they submit. The feedback from the graders was valuable but there was no incentive to stick with it and learn when they could just do a writing piece and get 6. I'd say the amount of 4/6 and 5/6 given out easily outnumbered the 6/6's for graphics. 

[Devise 4,475]

17 minutes ago, Scooter said:

Well you act as though I'm attacking the league with some of these responses and maybe you feel that way. But then again look at it from my side when you say things like "Not a single fucking suggestion in this thread is "fresh". How do I know that? I've been here for a month and I haven't seen half of what I typed up in my suggestions. Should I have access to BOG and blue team discussions? Should I know what you all are discussing behind the scenes as you put it? Really all I wanted was one TPE for my player but I also tried to put some thought into it. If I upset anyone I apologize, I am taking my leave from this shit show.

 

But we responded to you respectfully saying that that these things were in fact the case. Then you got defensive, started randomly calling Old Boys Club narrative that sorry to say if your not really from here you should have no perspective on because that narrative was dead for ages. And then you told us we took none of your suggestions or for that matter ANY new suggestions seriously. Where? How? Justify that. You didn't. You were told why things were the way they were in regards to your suggestions and others continued to reply and for whatever reason you got mad. All good if you want to drop it, but next time read the responses given to you please. There are tons of legitimate counter points or reasons as to why. You just kept calling it all nonsense or not a legitimate counter point. 

[Devise 4,475]

19 minutes ago, Will said:

As far as grading goes.. we never going back to the old system. Maybe it was different in the early days but my perspective on the present has been nobody comes on the VHL to have their English language skills ripped apart. Obviously there is a still a bare minimum standard required, but as far as combing through every misplaced comma and docking points? I don't think that's necessary. Anyway writing wasn't even the worst of it, the old grading system was absolutely terrible for growing the graphics community - graphics were graded so harshly that someone who was trying to learn was just going to be losing TPE every point task they submit. The feedback from the graders was valuable but there was no incentive to stick with it and learn when they could just do a writing piece and get 6. I'd say the amount of 4/6 and 5/6 given out easily outnumbered the 6/6's for graphics. 

 

Just quoting this so maybe more people read it. Also to add that there has been some discussion on trying to do more for the PT people who are engaged in those communities. You see we have a graphic section, and I'm sure we'd like to do more with both podcasting and writing so that those who wish to use this as a platform to build their skills or work on those areas are able to. We simply haven't found the right solution yet post the new auto grade world. But as Draper did mention here going back to the grading world is too harsh on newer members, who after seasons and seasons showed us enough negative feedback that the change was made. Which is ironically the exact thing @Scooter you accused us of ignoring. 

[Advantage 2,891]

Ive known Bash for years and boy do you ever sound like him.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Weird that someone who joined a month ago used the term "Old Boys club", seems like a Bushito thing to do.

[Devise 4,475]

2 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Weird that someone who joined a month ago used the term "Old Boys club", seems like a Bushito thing to do.

 

Indeed. Especially since since Draper took over, and definitely since Project Two the Blue Team and BoG have been very open and forthcoming about a lot of what is being discussed, and have been actively trying to keep the community involved in those discussions. It's been exactly the opposite of an Old Boys Club. To the point that some members of that now defunct club are mad with the changes being made haha. So I don't really know how a new member could ever have a perspective like that. Perhaps he is new and just talks to Bash on a regular basis. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

 

Indeed. Especially since since Draper took over, and definitely since Project Two the Blue Team and BoG have been very open and forthcoming about a lot of what is being discussed, and have been actively trying to keep the community involved in those discussions. It's been exactly the opposite of an Old Boys Club. To the point that some members of that now defunct club are mad with the changes being made haha. So I don't really know how a new member could ever have a perspective like that. Perhaps he is new and just talks to Bash on a regular basis. 

He said he barely knew him, but if he barely knew him he wouldn't know all this stuff or have the anger towards certain areas. He must reusing the same stocks left on the computer as well? Must have the same understanding of photoshop lingo to go with it. The most interesting thing though is how defensive he got when he said that Bushito left the league twice "can you guys count?". I mean why would he be upset about that? Bushito would but not someone who isn't Bushito.

[gorlab 4,321]

4 hours ago, Da Trifecta said:

This person screams Bushito

 

 

[Bushito 1,945]

15 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

But we responded to you respectfully saying that that these things were in fact the case. Then you got defensive, started randomly calling Old Boys Club narrative that sorry to say if your not really from here you should have no perspective on because that narrative was dead for ages. And then you told us we took none of your suggestions or for that matter ANY new suggestions seriously. Where? How? Justify that. You didn't. You were told why things were the way they were in regards to your suggestions and others continued to reply and for whatever reason you got mad. All good if you want to drop it, but next time read the responses given to you please. There are tons of legitimate counter points or reasons as to why. You just kept calling it all nonsense or not a legitimate counter point. 

#2 would never work. Because a new logo would have to be created every time it happens and we'd be asking a lot from our graphics guys to do that every 5 seasons or what not. All logos here are original and not found on the internet.

I literally said in the opening posts to make them get a logo in place and approved before allowing any movement of a team.

 

The issue we don't want to constantly be changing franchises if it doesn't need to happen.

This wasn't what I suggested at all. I was trying to open a discussion to hash out parameters to make it work and in those opening suggestions I had said once per GM. Also someone else had said make them work for three seasons then let them which I feel is also fair.

 

Old Boys Club

I have had responses to things of "I've been here since day one so..." comes off as an old boys club of we're the boss and you're not so we don't need your suggestions.

 

As for the legitimate counter points, the only one I see as legitimate is the VHLM is going through changes which really only means this season is a no for moving teams, it's not a forever thing.

[gorlab 4,321]

Bushito, if you are out there, I want you to know you were always cool with me.

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, gorlab said:

Bushito, if you are out there, I want you to know you were always cool with me.

I mean Bash and I were close at timed and got along well so me too.

 

With that being said, some of the things as Kendrick pointed out are a bit fishy.

[Jericho 917]

4 minutes ago, Scooter said:

Old Boys Club

I have had responses to things of "I've been here since day one so..." comes off as an old boys club of we're the boss and you're not so we don't need your suggestions.

 

As for the legitimate counter points, the only one I see as legitimate is the VHLM is going through changes which really only means this season is a no for moving teams, it's not a forever thing.

 

The ironic part is that almost nobody in a position of power has been here since Day 1. It's basically just Kendrick and Sterling, and the rest of us came in late and made drastic changes during our time here.

 

Fuck even @Will has been around for less than half of the league's life cycle. Dude's on his third player.

 

I feel like you get really defensive when someone has a different opinion (which is kind of a Bash thing to do). We didn't take these suggestions super seriously because we've had these debates many times before, so our counter points are already prepared. We aren't just trying to shit on new ideas, but we decided against them before and our reasoning generally hasn't changed. Having the "I'm taking my ball and bat and going home" approach comes off as a bit childish. If you have a legitimate disagreement with someone on a suggestion have the debate. That's how it generally goes in all the BoG discussions and almost nobody gets that butthurt over it. If your ideas are that good and are worth implementing you should be willing to defend your position. Hell half of the time we play devil's advocate for things we agree with in order to try and squash potential problems before they arise. @boubabi is famous for pointing out how we can exploit things with basically every suggested rule change. It's really helpful. Be willing to subject yourself to that same method if you want to be taken seriously by your peers.

[Devise 4,475]

9 minutes ago, Scooter said:

#2 would never work. Because a new logo would have to be created every time it happens and we'd be asking a lot from our graphics guys to do that every 5 seasons or what not. All logos here are original and not found on the internet.

I literally said in the opening posts to make them get a logo in place and approved before allowing any movement of a team.

 

The issue we don't want to constantly be changing franchises if it doesn't need to happen.

This wasn't what I suggested at all. I was trying to open a discussion to hash out parameters to make it work and in those opening suggestions I had said once per GM. Also someone else had said make them work for three seasons then let them which I feel is also fair.

 

Old Boys Club

I have had responses to things of "I've been here since day one so..." comes off as an old boys club of we're the boss and you're not so we don't need your suggestions.

 

As for the legitimate counter points, the only one I see as legitimate is the VHLM is going through changes which really only means this season is a no for moving teams, it's not a forever thing.

abcabcabcabc

 

Regarding logos. As stated in another post graphic makers enjoy seeing their logos for more than a few seasons. We aren't and have said this a bunch of times to you, OPPOSED to relocation. Nothing about your relocation suggestion was immediately shunned, we just don't want to make it this formal process because we'd rather not have relocation as frequently as probably you might. By we I mean not just "me and the BoG" I mean "we" the league. The parameters to make relocation work are fine, we have some already and that wasn't the issue. The issue is we like a lot of the franchises created here, for the most part. The VHLM has seen more relocation than the VHL but again, it's going through a different process all together right now which makes relocation as of right now on the back burner. 

 

As for the old boys club, offering TPE for suggestions and then openly coming into every suggestion thread and discussing things with members is as transparent as it gets. How is that an old boys club? How does that limit new member interest? In fact your "probably" not even a new member and you accused of us ignoring new member suggestions based entirely on the fact that you got defensive. 

 

As for legitimate counter points. "We've talked about award name changes but the majority of the league wasn't in favor." THAT Is a legitimate counter point. Sorry the league isn't just your voice. It isn't just my voice. It isn't just the Blue Teams voice. It isn't just the BoG voice. The majority of the league wasn't in favor of that specific suggestion. Move on. 

 

 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

fuck you guys the Oslo Naggerwolves and Oslo Screamin Seamen were the best team names out there we should bring them back

 

also yea @tfong will come at you like a ninja you wont see him coming. You guys want his size 6 up your ass? i know i dont i wouldnt fuck with him 

[Kesler 1,514]

I like #4 a lot, actually I like the rest too.

[Jericho 917]

1 minute ago, Pablo said:

I like #4 a lot, actually I like the rest too.

 

YOU AREN'T OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE YET CLINTON!

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Jericho said:

 

YOU AREN'T OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE YET CLINTON!

 

You sure about that bud?

 

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

yeah scooter is definitely bushito

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, eaglesfan036 said:

yeah scooter is definitely bushito

 

FOR THE RECORD; If this is the case....it's not a bad thing. Perhaps he came into the league thinking people would be more apprehensive towards him if he said who he was. Whatever. When Bushito has been active he's had good contributions to this site. This thread is still within the mandates of generating discussion, and I hope that new members who see this come in and see that we do take these suggestions seriously as proven by all the legit responses here. And again if you are Bushito, so what? I'd welcome you back to the league all the same.