STO/DAV: S55 Off-Season

[Molholt 2,185]

52 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Yes that

 

You could've left the part where you called me a dick. 

[boubabi 4,725]

Dick-on

[Kendrick 4,741]

4 hours ago, Higgins said:

 

Not sure where you were hiding for S55 but you can go back there

Hiding in a spot with a good viewpoint of your empty resume.

[jRuutu 2,464]

5 hours ago, Higgins said:

 

Riga did it first with a GM 2nd player trade swap! And look at Calgary getting @eaglesfan036 second player in the 2nd round of the draft, a pick that holds little value around here for trading.

Terrible deals for the league

[Devise 4,475]

24 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Terrible deals for the league

 

Yeah but no deal gets viewed like this. Ever. Period. It's not on us to tell GM's what they can and can't do when it comes to trades. Every trade gets analysed to see if a member is INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt their franchise via a trade. None of the trades in question happened that way. Are they lopsided? Yes. But they would be regardless of anything, regardless of if we had less teams, or no Project Two. That is what I think you fail to realize. 

 

WE SUPPORT A COMPETITIVE VHL. Not a communist one. We will not give hand outs to bad GM's for the "betterment" of the league. GM's want to build good teams? Then do so. Simple as that, and since we will never go to a low amount of teams, there is no way we lose more than the 2 we expanded from, your pretty much at a cross roads here. 

 

Also you stated earlier competitive full teams is the dream right, according to who? You? What is a full team even? In these waters, 6/4/1 is considered a full team. We like that. Sorry. We do. As for the bullshit about it somehow being due to stats, are you joking? Individual stats are all over the place right now because every team has a competent goalie. Whomever you mentioned as a fake player getting 100 points isn't happening. Like what, 5 players had 100 points total last season? Do you even look at the stats to make these arguments? It just sounds like you going "I don't like that there is no playoff races." Bad news. We could lower the number of teams to whatever we wanted and that wouldn't change. Some teams will always tank, because they recognize they aren't competitive enough to win, so they won't compete. And that happens vice versa as well.

 

There is no "magical" version of this place unless we force players onto specific rosters that doesn't involve teams that suck and teams that are good. Which is how it should be imo. Should there be a few mroe good teams? Yeah ideally, but we are also slowly but surely building back to that point. Even then I'm open discussing a contraction back to 8. But as far as I'm concerned 2 or 3 rebuilding teams in the league aren't the reason for that. It's that we don't have a full up in terms of playoff competition, but we are close. We had 5 competitive playoff teams last year, Davos, New York, Helsinki, Stockholm and Quebec. We had 4 the year before that. So I see an improvement there.

[BOOM 8,745]

He's back!

[jRuutu 2,464]

16 hours ago, Devise said:

 

Yeah but no deal gets viewed like this. Ever. Period. It's not on us to tell GM's what they can and can't do when it comes to trades. Every trade gets analysed to see if a member is INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt their franchise via a trade. None of the trades in question happened that way. Are they lopsided? Yes. But they would be regardless of anything, regardless of if we had less teams, or no Project Two. That is what I think you fail to realize. 

 

WE SUPPORT A COMPETITIVE VHL. Not a communist one. We will not give hand outs to bad GM's for the "betterment" of the league. GM's want to build good teams? Then do so. Simple as that, and since we will never go to a low amount of teams, there is no way we lose more than the 2 we expanded from, your pretty much at a cross roads here. 

 

Also you stated earlier competitive full teams is the dream right, according to who? You? What is a full team even? In these waters, 6/4/1 is considered a full team. We like that. Sorry. We do. As for the bullshit about it somehow being due to stats, are you joking? Individual stats are all over the place right now because every team has a competent goalie. Whomever you mentioned as a fake player getting 100 points isn't happening. Like what, 5 players had 100 points total last season? Do you even look at the stats to make these arguments? It just sounds like you going "I don't like that there is no playoff races." Bad news. We could lower the number of teams to whatever we wanted and that wouldn't change. Some teams will always tank, because they recognize they aren't competitive enough to win, so they won't compete. And that happens vice versa as well.

 

There is no "magical" version of this place unless we force players onto specific rosters that doesn't involve teams that suck and teams that are good. Which is how it should be imo. Should there be a few mroe good teams? Yeah ideally, but we are also slowly but surely building back to that point. Even then I'm open discussing a contraction back to 8. But as far as I'm concerned 2 or 3 rebuilding teams in the league aren't the reason for that. It's that we don't have a full up in terms of playoff competition, but we are close. We had 5 competitive playoff teams last year, Davos, New York, Helsinki, Stockholm and Quebec. We had 4 the year before that. So I see an improvement there.

For example the Calgary-Helsinki deal was a deal that the league should have punished right away, more than just lopsided.  Supporting a competitive VHL and allowing deals like the CGY-HEL happen just don´t go together. Instead of shaming both management teams, Helsinki is praised for doing terrible deal like that, a deal that had clear effect on their changes to win cups. Calgary and the GM at place at the time has gone inactive due to the trade? Did not at least help in keeping him around, what if league blocked the deal? Could the Calgary GM be here today as a active user? Spend so much time in figuring out ways to bring new users into VHL, but at the same few users that are already in VHL can pee on top of everything.

 

For me, a tight regular season where as many teams fight for playoff spots for as long as possible is the dream,  I don´t get much enjoyment on being part of winning someone 5-0 after outshotting them 50-14 or something like that. In a smaller league the battle for playoff spots would be a lot tighter than now, less teams, but more players in each team = tighter games.

 

Nothing happens in VHL during regular season these days, terrible sim after terrible sim,  just waiting for playoffs to start.

 

[BOOM 8,745]

Processed and closed?

 

[Devise 4,475]

6 hours ago, jRuutu said:

In a smaller league the battle for playoff spots would be a lot tighter than now, less teams, but more players in each team = tighter games.

 

But that simply isn't true. If we have even a 5 or 6 team league, hell even a 4, Team A may look better on paper than Team D. Team D GM will recognize he only makes playoffs by default, so he'll trade and sell to make a team better. FA and everyone will join up and we'll have a super team in a small league. There are more star power players spread out right now than there would be in a smaller league. 

 

We do not have the member base to support playoff races. We also have too many sly GM's. Look at @STZ this past off-season. He could of tried to explore getting Degrath as the GM player but the moment Snatch went to Davos he didn't want to settle for looking like a "solid" playoff team but not able to add for now or the future to put them in line with Helsinki. Not as good as the best team in the league? Rebuild. That is what happens. But their loss is the LEAGUES gain. Riga, Davos, and even Helsinki all benefitted from the firesale, and other teams benefitted from the shake ups. Teams and the league ebb and flow. The regular season sucking isn't something I disagree with, but i'ts likely to always be the case. 

 

My point was none of that has anything to do with what you were complaining about. You loosely connected stats, to Project Two, to a series of trades. None of those had any impact on the other. We never had legitimtae playoff races ore more interesting regular seasons when I first joined the league in 24, that didn't change once we added expansion, and that hasn't changed now. Even when we had 8 teams that wasn't the case. More often than not we are lucky to have 4+ competing teams. The odd season due to where the competition lies sometimes you had a playoff race for one spot. But the truth is legit members don't want to compete and then not even make the playoffs. It doesn't feel good. GM's don't like to do that either, if your competing you want to win, if your  not you better have a pick so missing the playoffs at least means you'll likely be better for it. I just don't think you understand how the league operates, either that or you dislike it. Which is fine. But you disliking it has nothing to do with how these systems are not interconnected, because they aren't. Regular season being a slog and always being a slog is something we've discussed on and on and on. If I had a solution I'd offer one. 

[boubabi 4,725]

tanking is just too important. There's no reason for a team to slightly compete for 8 seasons straight, it's cup run or nothing

 

That quest for the 8 competitive teams is just impossible.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

This thread is more active than every VHL team LR, I swear.

[Bushito 1,945]

46 minutes ago, boubabi said:

tanking is just too important. There's no reason for a team to slightly compete for 8 seasons straight, it's cup run or nothing

 

That quest for the 8 competitive teams is just impossible.

Tank for 4 seasons, compete for 4, line up the cycle with recreates you like. It's the way every GM does it.

[boubabi 4,725]

8 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

This thread is more active than every VHL team LR, I swear.

because shitposting isn't really encouraged in the lr, as there's no point of doing so

 

I, personally, would encourage shitposting 

Edited August 10, 2017 by boubabi

[Kyle 667]

7 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Nothing happens in VHL during regular season these days, terrible sim after terrible sim,  just waiting for playoffs to start.

 

 

This is the most "good ole days" post I've ever seen. It's literally been this way since Season 1, I was there.

 

Cut it down to 8, let people continue with the 2 player project and don't let them ever play for the same team and you'll have the most balance the league has ever had in all likelihood. It's pretty simple.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Kyle

[Devise 4,475]

9 minutes ago, Bushito said:

Tank for 4 seasons, compete for 4, line up the cycle with recreates you like. It's the way every GM does it.

 

Eh, not really anymore. Depends on the GM, the team and the situation. I mean I took over a rebuilding NY and they were only rebuilding for like 2 seasons and then we won a Cup. Helsinki same situation, they were rebuilding for not nearly 4 seasons and suddenly now are the kings. Toronto 3peat and dug themselves out of a hole for probably what will be more than 4 seasons.

 

Project Two has meant that how a competitive team looks not only has changed, but can be different than another team. Some of the top end teams in the last ten seasons were good for a couple of seasons, some more. Some built through forwards, some through a better goalie. Some had depth goalies. 

 

The true reality to "not sucking" is not making trades like the one Kesler made with Higgins or one of the ones Cologne made this off-season. Too many GM's here over value the draft, and draft picks and they play right into the hands of the hard ball GM's who know the real value of picks vs players. Windows will always dynamically change in those situations because a teams ability to compete for longer than 4 seasons or hurry out of a rebuild can easily entirely rest on good deals/good drafts. It's why GMing in this league has 100 percent always been about picking your spots. You can be the best GM in history, but you don't pick your spot correctly and even if your team breaks the record or ties it for most wins, you can still find yourself with no Cup wins. If anything I'd say that is probably what @Molholt shifted towards with his 3peat. Not just longer competitive runs, but ensuring you pick your spot to build the best team possible. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 hour ago, Devise said:

 

But that simply isn't true. If we have even a 5 or 6 team league, hell even a 4, Team A may look better on paper than Team D. Team D GM will recognize he only makes playoffs by default, so he'll trade and sell to make a team better. FA and everyone will join up and we'll have a super team in a small league. There are more star power players spread out right now than there would be in a smaller league. 

 

We do not have the member base to support playoff races. We also have too many sly GM's. Look at @STZ this past off-season. He could of tried to explore getting Degrath as the GM player but the moment Snatch went to Davos he didn't want to settle for looking like a "solid" playoff team but not able to add for now or the future to put them in line with Helsinki. Not as good as the best team in the league? Rebuild. That is what happens. But their loss is the LEAGUES gain. Riga, Davos, and even Helsinki all benefitted from the firesale, and other teams benefitted from the shake ups. Teams and the league ebb and flow. The regular season sucking isn't something I disagree with, but i'ts likely to always be the case. 

 

My point was none of that has anything to do with what you were complaining about. You loosely connected stats, to Project Two, to a series of trades. None of those had any impact on the other. We never had legitimtae playoff races ore more interesting regular seasons when I first joined the league in 24, that didn't change once we added expansion, and that hasn't changed now. Even when we had 8 teams that wasn't the case. More often than not we are lucky to have 4+ competing teams. The odd season due to where the competition lies sometimes you had a playoff race for one spot. But the truth is legit members don't want to compete and then not even make the playoffs. It doesn't feel good. GM's don't like to do that either, if your competing you want to win, if your  not you better have a pick so missing the playoffs at least means you'll likely be better for it. I just don't think you understand how the league operates, either that or you dislike it. Which is fine. But you disliking it has nothing to do with how these systems are not interconnected, because they aren't. Regular season being a slog and always being a slog is something we've discussed on and on and on. If I had a solution I'd offer one. 

Those kinds of ´tanking´ deals will be less likely to happen in a small league because you more than likely can offer whatever FA´s a bigger role than the Team A can, trading away your key pieces just because Team A has a better looking roster is not a good idea, of course all the FA´s will stay away from your team if you trade them away right away after hitting a rough spot. Do whatever you can to keep the roster together and go after whatever FA´s there is available. So what if you miss the playoffs or have slim change to win it now? Have some patience and give it another go next season.

 

Good move would be to eliminate few teams now and that way increase the playoff spot battles. Degrath would have maybe been enough to pursue someone to join him in NY in a smaller league.

 

Just because it´s rare or has not happened too often in the past does not mean we could not try to make it happen now.  I don´t get why the majority does not want to compete? What is the point in that, is surfing around the regular season to guaranteed playoff spot better option than having serious fight to make it?  I have an easy solution for making regular season more interesting, drop few teams and tweak the salary cap system if needed to.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

52 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

This is the most "good ole days" post I've ever seen. It's literally been this way since Season 1, I was there.

 

Cut it down to 8, let people continue with the 2 player project and don't let them ever play for the same team and you'll have the most balance the league has ever had in all likelihood. It's pretty simple.

There you have it, would love to give that a go. 2 player system is questionable, but if intense battles for playoff spots is only possible with help from 2nd players, then that is what happens.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

2 hours ago, boubabi said:

because shitposting isn't really encouraged in the lr, as there's no point of doing so

 

I, personally, would encourage shitposting 

*wants more shitposting*

fuck you you frenchie. go eat some snails and take a shower.

am i doing it right

[boubabi 4,725]

shit posting more like 

 

[Victor 10,940]

On 8/8/2017 at 11:19 PM, Devise said:

This thread though, what even in the hell. Somebody who has no idea is going to think this is the craziest blockbuster ever.

yup

[sterling 1,997]

22 minutes ago, Victor said:

yup

I expected more from an @Victor sighting

[Victor 10,940]

20 hours ago, sterling said:

I expected more from an @Victor sighting

I came for the dick measuring contest: http://www.vhlforum.com/topic/43258-vhl-sporcle-thread/?do=findComment&comment=465466