Why Does No One Reply to Media Spots? [1/2]

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Full disclosure: I am part of this problem. I very, very rarely write a media spot anymore, let alone open that section of the forum. I haven't done a rookie profile or a biography since Robin, my second player in the league. Maybe every once in a while I'll open up an interesting article that comes up under "View New Content", but the days of me and seemingly the vast majority of members going through and reading/commenting on good, quality media spots are long gone. The question is, why?

 

First Warning Sign - The VHL Mag

 

For those that don't know, the VHL (and later, the VHLM) used to have it's own magazine, and it was awesome. The amount of work that went into running this quality publication was staggering. There were over 200 editions basically put out every week of top notch content from both the writing and graphics sides of the league. Members such as Ree_21 (I think that was his name), @boubabi, @STZ, and others who I'm most likely forgetting put in a ton of time making sure the magazine was quality. There were weekly articles that were can't miss, such as @sterling's opinion pieces, and the well written and researched articles of @Devise, @ADV, @diamond_ace, @Tagger, and many, many more. These weekly topics routinely had 2-5 pages of discussion.

 

What happened?

 

From my memory and doing no research...nothing happened. People just stopped reading, stopped writing, and stopped caring. It's a shame, although again, I'm just as guilty of all of the above. I stopped reading, I stopped responding, and I stopped writing. There were multiple times where I told STZ I could do a weekly article, and I did it for a while for the extra TPE, but I just stopped. Like many others, I just got burnt out of writing articles (more on this later). Of all the things to disappear over the 6 years or however long it's been since I've been a part of the VHL, I think I'm most sad to see the ruin of the VHL Mag. It was such a central piece of the league that brought quality discussion (and to be honest, quality shit posting as well). 

 

We Got Old

 

The main culprit, and something that every iteration of the recruitment team and BoG has realized, is that in general, we got old, and we never replaced the younger versions of ourselves. This league was created 10+ years ago or however long it's been. Back then, many of us had much, much more free time to just hang out on the site, use chat, post in the locker room, create quality graphics, and research stats for quality articles. Now though? Many of us have jobs, families, and real life responsibilities. There just isn't the time to do what we used to, or you're at the point in your life where you just want to do something else instead. Who wants to go to work 5 days a week (or more), care for family/kids, and then spend hours researching and writing? On top of that, many people have just done it for so long that they're done. Writing media spot after media spot, there's just no more motivation to keep the creating juices flowing. There's only so many times you can give the same bland, canned interview as a media spot, and only so many times you can read them as well.

 

Welfare + Additional TPE opportunities

 

Again, full disclosure: This section describes me to a T. Welfare was originally created as a way to offer an alternative to a point task, with the idea of offering some TPE for  missing a PT, not as a replacement. For better or for worse (and overall, from the perspective of league health, I'd say it's better), along the way, welfare and these additional capped TPE opportunities morphed into a way to hit the weekly TPE cap without doing a PT. And again, this was me. For a long time, I hit the weekly cap with welfare, job pay, and fan590/vhl.com articles. Now though? What reason do I have to write a 500 word article for 6 TPE when I can just do welfare for 5 TPE? Again, from a league health standpoint, this is most likely a good thing, but from a league/media spot activity perspective, it's not.

 

How Can We Fix It?

 

This is something that's not going to be easy to fix, if it's done at all. Two quick things I've though of:

 

-Recruitment/Retainment: We've talked about this forever, and lately, it's getting much better. But the fact of the matter is, we need more members, and perhaps younger ones. As I mentioned before, the sweet spot for activity is that late middle school to high school demographic, and it seems like it's the one we have trouble recruiting. Many of us were annoying teenagers like @Kesler when we were younger, but we were active annoying teenagers. We have to find a way to make this site, and really the whole idea of player based sim leagues, entertaining to the younger generation, and jeez do I feel old typing that out. 

 

-Incentive for Consecutive Point Tasks: I think something similar I implemented as head grader back in the day would work well to increase point task frequency, and through that, hopefully quality. There used to be a system called FIBA, where graders would receive points corresponding to the amount of TPE they earned that week through grading. At the end of the season, whoever had the most points would win "media spot/graphics grader of the year" and receive a small TPE bonus. In order to promote more consistent grading, I added a bonus of +1 point per week for grading in consecutive weeks. I think we could do something similar with regards to media spots, whether it's bringing back a FIBA type competition or giving +1 uncapped TPE for doing point tasks in consecutive weeks (whether it's 2 or 3 would be up for discussion given TPE inflation and all that jazz). Just an incentive to do more PTs instead of welfare.

 

 

 

1,000+ words, claiming for weeks of 7/30 and 8/6.

[Devise 4,475]

Hey look I read all of this and commented. We are a step toward those glory days in no time.

 

Seriously though I think some sort of incentive for consecutive point tasks is a good idea. I wouldn't even be against some sort of deeper ranking systems that rates how much TPE you earn per week and rewards at the end of season to the most active. In this instance things like welfare and practice facility probably would not have to count, but considering the Portal does allow us to quickly see who earned what/how there should be a possibility to do something like this. Also First Gens should get more for being consecutive or higher up. Or even just a first gen doubler to these rewards. Real first gens too, if your an old member poising a first gen you should feel perfectly fine not getting rewards like that. 

[Banackock 7,975]

Slowly we are finding annoying active guys again.

 

@pennypenny.... right @Beaviss ???

 

I try my best to get on everything but been busy at work, sleep deprived, quitting smoking and bought a new puppy... sounds like a mess, hey? Haha

 

Also, welfare is a fucking saint. Why write 500-600+ words and waste my day when I’m a single worded post and under a minute I can claim welfare and only lose out on one TPE which can be earned by something as simple as a Fan 590, PC or something. 

[Banackock 7,975]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

Hey look I read all of this and commented. We are a step toward those glory days in no time.

 

Seriously though I think some sort of incentive for consecutive point tasks is a good idea. I wouldn't even be against some sort of deeper ranking systems that rates how much TPE you earn per week and rewards at the end of season to the most active. In this instance things like welfare and practice facility probably would not have to count, but considering the Portal does allow us to quickly see who earned what/how there should be a possibility to do something like this. Also First Gens should get more for being consecutive or higher up. Or even just a first gen doubler to these rewards. Real first gens too, if your an old member poising a first gen you should feel perfectly fine not getting rewards like that. 

Maybe a bonus of +1? Or make the gap between Welfare and Media spot slightly bigger? Say a permanent 7 to boost writing, league activity and community presence? 

 

As I said, I try to write but haven’t lately. Welfare is so easy and the 1 TPE difference means nothing because of the other easy things. I don’t mind this, but it has made me lazy and has decreased my writing. 

 

Id say a boost would be an excellent idea and I’m sure it’s been brought up a lot. Maybe have a thing where if you write a media spot for 4 weeks straight, you get a free week? Or a +3 bonus on your 5th media and then it resets again? 

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Banackock said:

Maybe a bonus of +1? Or make the gap between Welfare and Media spot slightly bigger? Say a permanent 7 to boost writing, league activity and community presence? 

 

As I said, I try to write but haven’t lately. Welfare is so easy and the 1 TPE difference means nothing because of the other easy things. I don’t mind this, but it has made me lazy and has decreased my writing. 

 

Id say a boost would be an excellent idea and I’m sure it’s been brought up a lot. Maybe have a thing where if you write a media spot for 4 weeks straight, you get a free week? Or a +3 bonus on your 5th media and then it resets again? 

 

What if we just instituted some sort of challenge system like in a lot of video games? First point task for a first gen is a challenge in their portal that gives them a reward (salary or TPE) and etc. Things like "four consecutive point tasks" could easily be challenges that once met give out rewards. These challenges could be per season too, so that they reset if people want to continue chasing them the next season or if we don't like one and want to tweak some. 

 

@Will how hard would something like this be to throw in the Portal? A member could claim that they have accomplished a challenge and an updater or whomever would go and see it, confirm it, and then give the rewards to them whatever they be. Hell some of the challenges could even be stat based if we wanted to be fair enough to give rewards across the board. Some challenges wouldn't have to reset too if we wanted to do things like "first 300 hit season" or something to those effect. 

[Tagger 2,722]

I will say I do like the idea of a consecutive point task reward, The only potential problem I can think of would be how that would work in coinciding with the Affiliate PT program. If we've gone along with that with the idea that it gives people the ability to submit one PT and get the same reward across all three boards, us adding that incentive to our PTs may not go down so well unless it was implemented in those leagues as well.

 

As for the mag, I enjoyed writing for it, but the reason I stopped was more that it felt like I was kinda constrained as to what I could write. If I'm passionate enough about a certain thing, I want to be able to write as much as I want about it, but that didn't really fit with a magazine format. It also felt like I had to write about a specific thing, whereas I like the ability to be free to address completely different issues whenever I want.

[Banackock 7,975]

@Devise hmm yeah.

 

OR, how about..

 

the usual 6 TPE but every completed media spot also earns you 100,000 to be popped in the bank? 

[Beaviss 4,955]

I like the idea of a achievement system.

 

Write your first media spot +3 TPE

join discord +1 TPE

Etc

 

im a big pusher of the increased media worth 5 welfare compared to 6 for a media spot is not enough difference.

We can lower the worth of welfare easy to 4 max and 3 for newbies. Increases the gap aswell as not pissing off our affiliates.

[Banackock 7,975]

1 minute ago, Beaviss said:

I like the idea of a achievement system.

 

Write your first media spot +3 TPE

join discord +1 TPE

Etc

 

im a big pusher of the increased media worth 5 welfare compared to 6 for a media spot is not enough difference.

We can lower the worth of welfare easy to 4 max and 3 for newbies. Increases the gap aswell as not pissing off our affiliates.

Writing you first media spot only solves the issue... for one media spot in a members entirety on the sight. That’s like dropping a grain of sand in the ocean. 

 

I think were looking for a longterm fix which consistently kicks out.. not a one time thing for new members.. we’re looking to increase activity.. for all members

[Banackock 7,975]

I wouldn’t touch welfare anymore @Beaviss... for the purpose of affiliations and other members relying on it. I am now a firm believer it helps members and the site. 

 

Media goes up, welfare should not go down. 

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Banackock said:

Writing you first media spot only solves the issue... for one media spot in a members entirety on the sight. That’s like dropping a grain of sand in the ocean. 

 

I think were looking for a longterm fix which consistently kicks out.. not a one time thing for new members.. we’re looking to increase activity.. for all members

 

To be fair, he said etc. That implies a multi layered tiered challenge/achievement system that is constantly rewarding them for tons of things. First media spot is only one of them. In an ideal system like that there would likely be hundreds of challenges/achievements members could complete to help them earn. Some only once per season, some once per career etc. 

[Banackock 7,975]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

To be fair, he said etc. That implies a multi layered tiered challenge/achievement system that is constantly rewarding them for tons of things. First media spot is only one of them. In an ideal system like that there would likely be hundreds of challenges/achievements members could complete to help them earn. Some only once per season, some once per career etc. 

Misunderstood. Sounds like a cool concept. 

[Devise 4,475]

Also  in that vein, some achievements/challenges could reward trophies and give users thing to show off. It's one thing we don't do enough of. Our HoF and Awards only cover so much that users get only a fleeting sense of accomplishment for being apart of something when realistically we could be allowing them to show that stuff. Whether that be user trophies or something, you could easily tie some of that to a challenge/achievement system. 

 

For example, presume there is a challenge "Score a Playoff Hat Trick" +1 TPE. What if that also gave you a little trophy underneath your name signifying that? Then players would be able to proudly continue to show off not just TPE achievements but even stat ones that things like HoF and awards do not cover. Just a thought. 

[Beaviss 4,955]

15 minutes ago, Devise said:

Also  in that vein, some achievements/challenges could reward trophies and give users thing to show off. It's one thing we don't do enough of. Our HoF and Awards only cover so much that users get only a fleeting sense of accomplishment for being apart of something when realistically we could be allowing them to show that stuff. Whether that be user trophies or something, you could easily tie some of that to a challenge/achievement system. 

 

For example, presume there is a challenge "Score a Playoff Hat Trick" +1 TPE. What if that also gave you a little trophy underneath your name signifying that? Then players would be able to proudly continue to show off not just TPE achievements but even stat ones that things like HoF and awards do not cover. Just a thought. 

 

That would be a cool thing that when implemented all the new guys would have something to aim for. On ps4 I love achievement hunting. That would give some of you oldies something to go for and put all the new people on the same footing. Have leader boards etc. could even make it post counts and most likes in a season etc. making activity worth TPE.

[sterling 1,996]

Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.

[Banackock 7,975]

3 minutes ago, sterling said:

Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.

Recreate.

 

ive never understood how people sign in daily or whatever... just to sign in.. but never, ever have players.

 

RECREATE. Do it  

[Spade18 1,305]

I like the idea of an achievement system.  If we're looking for younger people, that's the way to do it.  Obvious short term goals they can make tangible progress towards.

 

 

[Will 4,660]

7 hours ago, Devise said:

 

What if we just instituted some sort of challenge system like in a lot of video games? First point task for a first gen is a challenge in their portal that gives them a reward (salary or TPE) and etc. Things like "four consecutive point tasks" could easily be challenges that once met give out rewards. These challenges could be per season too, so that they reset if people want to continue chasing them the next season or if we don't like one and want to tweak some. 

 

@Will how hard would something like this be to throw in the Portal? A member could claim that they have accomplished a challenge and an updater or whomever would go and see it, confirm it, and then give the rewards to them whatever they be. Hell some of the challenges could even be stat based if we wanted to be fair enough to give rewards across the board. Some challenges wouldn't have to reset too if we wanted to do things like "first 300 hit season" or something to those effect. 

 

The short answer is I'm not sure (yet). Definitely easy to model achievements, the major complexity is just figuring out the best time and way to go about checking if the requirements for challenges have been met. 

 

But it's obviously a very common system so I'm sure with some research I could get a good roadmap on that without re-inventing the wheel myself. 

 

Aside from that it would definitely take quite a bit time just to actually code all the checks for so many different types of things. 

 

There's also some limitations with STHS to consider. Like with the example you said about scoring x goals in a playoff game, that would be really difficult to do without requiring human-intervention because STHS doesn't actually store stats on a per-game basis, it just spits out the game thread and stores stats for each player on a per-season basis. 

[sterling 1,996]

19 hours ago, Banackock said:

Recreate.

 

ive never understood how people sign in daily or whatever... just to sign in.. but never, ever have players.

 

RECREATE. Do it  

No

[Banackock 7,975]

Just now, sterling said:

No

Fine

[Hybrid1486 577]

I just maxed out without doing a PT for the first time this week, and I feel like I cheated the system somehow. I get this MS entirely.

[BOOM 8,648]

I used to reply a lot. Not 3 paragraphs, but something to at least let the writer know that their efforts were not in vain!

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Claiming for second week.

[Victor 10,829]

On 8/4/2018 at 9:02 PM, Banackock said:

Recreate.

 

ive never understood how people sign in daily or whatever... just to sign in.. but never, ever have players.

 

RECREATE. Do it  

It's really easy you know.

 

Signing in = 5 minutes, max 10 if you find a good thread/shitstorm to read.

Having a player = actual commitment.

[Devise 4,475]

28 minutes ago, Victor said:

It's really easy you know.

 

Signing in = 5 minutes, max 10 if you find a good thread/shitstorm to read.

Having a player = actual commitment.

 

Bingo. It's just not just about looking at it from a maximum amount of time spent either @Banackock. Focus in on the word Victor uses here, commitment. Just because someone is signing in every day or every few days just to look around the forum doesn't mean they want to commit to needing to sign in every day or every week, to maintain an active player. Even a welfare active. The idea that "you can just click claim in a thread" is still a level of care that goes beyond the time commitment aspect that only gets looked at. 

 

it's also kind of how you treat some of it during the time you commit to it as well. When your active, going hard, GMing, when something comes up on the VHL you generally attend to it. Even in situations where you may be lurking or just quickly reading something at the moment, like on the fly on mobile for example, if something in real life comes up you feel more pressure dropping the VHL in some of those moments if you know you have to come back to do stuff because your trying to maintain a player. If your just catching up on shit storms or seeing what is going on, it's an easy swipe to the left back to real life. 

 

If anything I think more of the pushes from us regarding the Portal and some of those systems are even looking to address some of those problems, making it easier to have a player in the league with less commitment required. Which is only good for diversifying the type of members who can even have time to participate right. Anyways random 3 paragraph post out of nowhere.