The Great League File Debate [Formerly S65 VHLM Index]

[Beketov 9,041]

I'm re-naming and cleaning this topic up as a suggestion / complaint instead of an index. Just doesn't make sense to have all that in an index topic. So if you want to continue the conversation you can do so in here.

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

7 minutes ago, Beketov said:

The portal is what creates the player so it makes sense that he’s missing from the index. Do you have a link to the player?

No because he isn't even on the portal he is 100% missing now.

 

Plus any way I can get access to the .sth file?

[Beketov 9,041]

I mean do you have a link to the player page that’s created on here? We’re kinda working blind otherwise.

 

Also, why would you need the league file? We don’t tend to give that out.

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

4 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I mean do you have a link to the player page that’s created on here? We’re kinda working blind otherwise.

 

Also, why would you need the league file? We don’t tend to give that out.

Have someone who was a simmer on my team and they offered to test my lines for me, thought it was worth a try. Just trying to be a through GM and give my team their best chance.

 

My fish Clone link------->  https://vhlportal.com/players/playerfocus/1433

[Beketov 9,041]

34 minutes ago, BladeMaiden said:

Have someone who was a simmer on my team and they offered to test my lines for me, thought it was worth a try. Just trying to be a through GM and give my team their best chance.

 

My fish Clone link------->  https://vhlportal.com/players/playerfocus/1433

I’m so confused. What do you mean by clone? That’s a Calgary player above the VHLM cap?

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

13 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I’m so confused. What do you mean by clone? That’s a Calgary player above the VHLM cap?

@Banackock and @diamond_ace said I could have a clone because of draft issues.

 

So no chance of me being able to test my lines and not being forced to metaphorically stumble through this like a blindfolded hunter trying to get out of the forest surrounded by bear traps.

Edited February 27, 2019 by BladeMaiden

[TheFlash 317]

If only there were a season, BEFORE the season, and we could test those things!

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

7 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

I mean, that's what I'm doing, but I also don't have a sim buddy. We've got 72 games to figure it out, getting the league file and testing would be a massive advantage.

I mean I think this is something GMs should have been doing from the get go. Why wouldn't I want to test my lines and strategies if given the opportunity? How is me Drafting someone with sim experience who can help me out any different than nyko recruiting 8 ppl he can guarantee will be active. I'm asking to be able to use all tools available to me, I'm not saying they shouldn't be available to you. I am arguing for us to test lines or have a preseason or something to give us a clue.

Edited February 27, 2019 by BladeMaiden

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

10 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

The difference is that having access to your own sim is a money barrier- an expensive one at that. I'd love a preseason if it's such a big deal, but if other teams start to go test their lines elsewhere because someone they know has purchased a license, then I either have to either:

 

-find one for myself

-pay for the license

-lose out on simming as much as i please, letting other GMs test the shit out of my roster

 

I get wanting to use everything you have, but we're talking about monetary investment in a development league. Blue is entirely within their right to not release the file, as I hope they won't.

I'm pushing for this. This is a regular part of other sim leagues and  it makes logical sense for us to test our lines. In terms of fairness, life isn't fair ppl recruit friends who will only join one team or will recreate or go inactive wasting picks or waivers of other GMs. I see your side of the argument but it seems inadequate. Like I said  to me it seemed like a logical request and something we should have access to.  I really think a preseason is in order for the VHLM, who care if we are a "development league" we are the first experience new players  get  when they join. Treat that experience as a something, don't disregard it because you have been here longer and are in the majors. A lot of my players asked about a preseason, it would mean something to them. Surly as retention, you could see that is worth something in our "development league" process.

[TheFlash 317]

Yeah, as a new player ( like Blade eluded to above) it’s certainly a crappy feeling having to wait for VHL to finish their pre season just so we can start our own season.

 

why not run them simultaneously?

[Jubo 1,839]

10 minutes ago, BladeMaiden said:

life isn't fair ppl recruit friends who will only join one team or will recreate or go inactive wasting picks or waivers of other GMs

Preach

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

8 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Yeah, as a new player ( like Blade eluded to above) it’s certainly a crappy feeling having to wait for VHL to finish their pre season just so we can start our own season.

 

why not run them simultaneously?

Not enough simmers most likely but I really think this should be looked into VHLMers are not 2nd class Citizens.

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

4 minutes ago, Jubo07 said:

Preach

Why is there even a waiver limit, @Banackock.  Can we just get these new kids signed and on teams?

[TheFlash 317]

5 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

No, because I think it's unreasonable to make volatile VHLM GMs pay for a yearly subscription that they're almost guaranteed not to use for those 12 months. That's a lot of money we're going to be pouring into a development league for a few preseason games to tide people over. Life is about patience and trial and error, and I don't think it's unreasonable at all to wait a few days for sims to start (after which, they'll become DAILY) and to try and shift your lines as the season goes along accordingly.

 

Now, I'd appreciate if you took your fucking ridiculous tone down, because I'm done responding to you on your high horse until you can make a point in a way that's not condescending and childish.

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

8 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

No, because I think it's unreasonable to make volatile VHLM GMs pay for a yearly subscription that they're almost guaranteed not to use for those 12 months. That's a lot of money we're going to be pouring into a development league for a few preseason games to tide people over. Life is about patience and trial and error, and I don't think it's unreasonable at all to wait a few days for sims to start (after which, they'll become DAILY) and to try and shift your lines as the season goes along accordingly.

 

Now, I'd appreciate if you took your fucking ridiculous tone down, because I'm done responding to you on your high horse until you can make a point in a way that's not condescending and childish.

Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle idk what is.

 

You are an updated and a VHLM GM stop talking to me as if your opinion has any bearing or actual weight in this league. I'm really if i missed when they made you commissioner of the VHLM or the judge and jury of your VHLM GM peers. You get of your damn soap box, I have ever right for my options to be heard and taken seriously. You don't have to like them and you don't have to care but you do not tell me what tone I should take. You are nothing but a power tripping updater who thinks his opinion is the end all be all. Honestly do all all a favor and keep your  judgements to your self. Stop acting like i'm trying to screw everyone over, I'm asking questions to try to make this place move towards an even better future. Out of Anyone I would have expected you to understand that with as many suggestions that you have made in the past.

[SlashACM 38]

No one is making you buy/not buy Simon T to test lines. If you wanna be a proactive GM and actually test shit instead of eyeballing it all season why can't you? I don't see anything unfair in using your resources to better your team. Blade is smart for asking to test. I'm sure all the other players wish their GMs would test sim :zoomeyes:

[Esso2264 774]

you can sim with the free client that you get on the STHS site. when I GMed a WJC team in SHL i did test sims with it, the only thing is you can't save the results but for test sims its perfect

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

2 minutes ago, Esso2264 said:

you can sim with the free client that you get on the STHS site. when I GMed a WJC team in SHL i did test sims with it, the only thing is you can't save the results but for test sims its perfect

Thank you esso! A free solution to the issue at hand. @Sonnet you ready to pull up your sleeves and work, or are you still going to complain?

Edited February 27, 2019 by BladeMaiden

[SlashACM 38]

1 minute ago, Sonnet said:

 

Politely go fuck yourself.

 

I'll take ways you know Blade won the argument for 600 Alex

[Dil 1,760]

Imagine writing an entire media spot as a reply.

[SlashACM 38]

3 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

This, IMO, kinda kills the philosophy behind GMing. Nobody in reality gets to run infinite simulations in order to come out with some statistical best method based on the results. I'm down for getting a preseason, to feel everything out and adjust accordingly, but running sims all day and getting the best outcomes isn't something that's realistically available to everyone.

 

Biggest example, look at the NHL. These guys don't get to try out every combination against every team whenever they like. They look at past results, make a gut call to see if they can improve, and repeat this cycle as the season goes on. It's a natural flow of improvement, an application of trying and learning, which is exactly what makes a good GM.

 

One of the best parts about watching the VHL finals this past season was talking with Quik about how he wanted to adjust the lines going forward. There was uncertainty, there was doubt, and he had to trust his gut to make a decision about how to approach each and every game. In between games 6 and 7, we had a talk about changing things up, even though our previous strategy had been working in previous games. Should we risk it and try something new (because we'd lost 3 games in a row, surely something had to change), or should we stick to what's seen results (because that's how we got 3 wins in the first place)?

 

If we can all sim infinitely, that air of indecision is completely removed from the GM position. The tension, the uncertainty, and the ability to think it over and make a critical decision are gone in favor of "well, I'll run all options and pick what works out the best."

 

The uncertainty and the instinct is what's supposed to make this fun. If we get to a point where we should all just be running what sims most optimally, then where does the fun go? When learning, growing, and getting better is no longer organic but generated automatically, then what's the difference between GMs?

 

@BladeMaiden

The point of GMing isn't to watch how the sim unfolds, it's to act and react. I run WJC over in the ol SH of L, and every nation has one person to test sim. What does this mean exactly? Everyone is on top of their game, simming to find the best strategies, and in turn making other teams have to go back and rethink theirs. @Esso2264 can attest that it creates a competitive and fun environment, with no clear runaway victors. I don't believe test simming gives an advantage to GMs, I think it pushes GMs to really get familiar with the sim and how it acts and separates the good from the bad. I can see you already dug your heels in though, so I guess this is the end of that

[SlashACM 38]

2 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

The argument is irrelevant because if it's free and available, then it's available. Nothing I can do about that.

 

But please, continue sucking off your friend.

I'll suck off whoever I wanna suck off, that's none of ya damn business

[Dil 1,760]

4 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

But please, continue sucking off your friend.

Yikes, who shoved a stick up your ass?

[BladeMaiden 1,807]

3 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

This, IMO, kinda kills the philosophy behind GMing. Nobody in reality gets to run infinite simulations in order to come out with some statistical best method based on the results. I'm down for getting a preseason, to feel everything out and adjust accordingly, but running sims all day and getting the best outcomes isn't something that's realistically available to everyone.

 

Biggest example, look at the NHL. These guys don't get to try out every combination against every team whenever they like. They look at past results, make a gut call to see if they can improve, and repeat this cycle as the season goes on. It's a natural flow of improvement, an application of trying and learning, which is exactly what makes a good GM.

 

One of the best parts about watching the VHL finals this past season was talking with Quik about how he wanted to adjust the lines going forward. There was uncertainty, there was doubt, and he had to trust his gut to make a decision about how to approach each and every game. In between games 6 and 7, we had a talk about changing things up, even though our previous strategy had been working in previous games. Should we risk it and try something new (because we'd lost 3 games in a row, surely something had to change), or should we stick to what's seen results (because that's how we got 3 wins in the first place)?

 

If we can all sim infinitely, that air of indecision is completely removed from the GM position. The tension, the uncertainty, and the ability to think it over and make a critical decision are gone in favor of "well, I'll run all options and pick what works out the best."

 

The uncertainty and the instinct is what's supposed to make this fun. If we get to a point where we should all just be running what sims most optimally, then where does the fun go? When learning, growing, and getting better is no longer organic but generated automatically, then what's the difference between GMs?

 

@BladeMaiden

Ok Sonnet at the OK Corral simmer down,

 

Your philosophy behind GMing may have a few kinks in the chain.

 

GMs do test lines constantly, it is called practice and NHL teams actually do that quite regularly. If I want to call a practice every day and run my lines until they are perfect that is my prerogative. Don't use your point of view and romanticizing of hockey to taint all the hard work that goes into making a good team. I am willing to burn the midnight oil for my teams benefit and shocked that you are not.  you can never really guarantee anything even by testing lines but i would like the opportunity to give my team their best chance. You don't want to fine. You keep you mysticism and I'll grind hard and test my lines, we'll see who comes out on top. This is a difference on GM philosophies not about equality of fairness. You can't just have things the way you want it.

 

I would like to remind you that respect is one of the rules of this site, you may not like what I say but how raddled are you that you insulted me, personally, and it wasn't even clever. poor show old man.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

imagine making test sims in a random sim engine yall some losers