VHLM and Recruitment are so bad right now

[BOOM 8,758]

[Triller 1,663]

1 hour ago, twists said:

I will say though, everyone in this damn community is too afraid of hurting each others little feelings to actually improve anything. This has been a common issue since I've been here. If someone sucks at their job, this community lets them waste away at it until they "retire". Plus, once you get into a cushy gig like being on the recruitment team, no one wants to lose that job and they're all going to cover for each other.  

  

Wouldn't it be crazy if the more important league jobs (things involving real life) were merit based? Crazy idea I know.

It's true, some people try to approach certain situations with tact and understanding that these are real people who owe you absolutely nothing and may have other responsibilities they are dealing with and are doing their best under the circumstances.

 

And yes, it would be crazy to suggest that.  What are the required goals, what kind of skill set should someone require for the job?  How much time must they be engaged in this job to meet yours or anyone's standards? Merit has to be based on realistic parameters and if this is sounding too much like a real job you wouldn't even qualify for than you'd be correct.

[Zetterberg 863]

35 minutes ago, Triller said:

 

And yes, it would be crazy to suggest that.  What are the required goals, what kind of skill set should someone require for the job?  How much time must they be engaged in this job to meet yours or anyone's standards? Merit has to be based on realistic parameters and if this is sounding too much like a real job you wouldn't even qualify for than you'd be correct.

No it’s not that crazy to suggest lol he’s talking about merit for doing existing jobs so all those perimeters are already established.

[Subject056 1,205]

4 hours ago, Zetterberg said:

Hello VHL, just wanted to rant about something real quick, I’m sure I’m not the first to talk about this and I’d hope that higher ups are aware of the issue but I feel it’s worth getting more attention. What is happening in the VHLM. Teams have no players! Like at all! Look at this!! 
 

 

How are these actual teams that are actually stepping on to the ice night after night?? That’s embarrassing. I get teams having 6-4-1 instead of the irl usual of 12-6-2. It’s sim hockey everyone wants some minutes but running a 2-1-1?!?! Or a 3-0-1?!?!?! 0 defenders on a hockey team…How is this supposed to encourage anyone on those teams to keep playing? And it’s not just Mexico and Halifax, Miami is running a 3-1-1, Mississauga is running a 4-2-1, Philly is running a 4-2-1. Hell the top team in the league rn Houston has 5 forwards and is about to lose one to IA.
 

The VHLM either needs to fold a bunch of teams next season or we fix the real problem and get recruitment to do something. Now I would like to say if you are apart of recruitment I don’t dislike you guys as members. But as the recruitment team you need to stop fucking around with reposting graphics that makes no sense to anyone outside the league on instagram and TikTok. Start doing what works. Get YouTube ads out, they bring in players every time and the majority of current members came from YouTube (me included). And get some better ideas for promotion I’m sorry but the instagram looks like garbage.
 

The image quality is all over the place the framing is even more all over the place. It looks sloppy and unprofessional. No one is gonna be drawn in to a post with Alex Letang in a Malmo Jersey with the name Reese McFleury plastered across his body. Cause it doesn’t make any sense to anyone outside of the vhl, which just so happens to be WHO YOU ARE ADVERTISING TO!! Like look at this post and tell me you aren’t going to instantly scroll by it.

 

Genuinely there’s maybe 3 posts where I’d imagine a normal person looks and doesn’t think “wtf” then keeps scrolling. 

 

Also probably the most important part do we even know if we’re allowed to be using NHL players to promote our site? Like it’s definitely okay to make stuff for the forum because it’s personal projects, but when it crosses into advertising I have to imagine that’s not allowed right? Like those are real people’s likenesses being used to promote the VHL without giving them financial compensation or getting consent.

 

It feels like recruitment has been bumbling around not putting any real effort or at least not coordinating a proper vision of how to promote the site. To end it, save the VHLM by getting a god damn YouTube ad out, and fix the sloppy mess that is the social media accounts. 

 

 

Sweet article! It's been featured on our IG story today!

 

As the only person who has been posting on our Instagram account since August 2023, I apologize for doing such a poor job and not meeting the VHL'S expectations. I thought featuring the work done by our members would not only help retain, but also recognize the hard work put in by our members as well as possibly help build our social media presence by catching users eyes. Daily posts and stories on Instagram have slowed down, including player of the week stats and weekly standings due to burnout and it being too much for one person to coordinate and build on each week. 

 

We are working on getting a YouTube ad in place before the trade deadline if possible. We will be assessing the use of social media altogether.

 

I hope that you were not insulted by how I've used your graphics on the VHL Instagram account. If you were in anyway offended let me know and I can remove your posts. 

 

In the meantime I hope you enjoy your article being featured as today's story. With a "sloppy" resize, an "unprofessional" filter and catchy tune to bring in the masses. 

 

 

 

 

[Banackock 8,054]

Fire the coach

[Gaming Ringleader 246]

the one man we can blame for this is cole like always

#blamecole

[Zetterberg 863]

8 minutes ago, Subject056 said:

 

 

Sweet article! It's been featured on our IG story today!

 

As the only person who has been posting on our Instagram account since August 2023, I apologize for doing such a poor job and not meeting the VHL'S expectations. I thought featuring the work done by our members would not only help retain, but also recognize the hard work put in by our members as well as possibly help build our social media presence by catching users eyes. Daily posts and stories on Instagram have slowed down, including player of the week stats and weekly standings due to burnout and it being too much for one person to coordinate and build on each week. 

 

We are working on getting a YouTube ad in place before the trade deadline if possible. We will be assessing the use of social media altogether.

 

I hope that you were not insulted by how I've used your graphics on the VHL Instagram account. If you were in anyway offended let me know and I can remove your posts. 

 

In the meantime I hope you enjoy your article being featured as today's story. With a "sloppy" resize, an "unprofessional" filter and catchy tune to bring in the masses. 

 

 

 

 

 7 members in recruitment and only 1 runs the ig?  What are the others doing? As for your idea I get what you were going for but that’s not gonna attract anybody new.(which should be the point of it)I’ve explained myself enough as to why I think that is. Nice guilt trip but it doesn’t change that the ig isn’t being used how it should.

[Moon 593]

@ZetterbergI highly suggest you shut your mouth, as we both know you couldnt do any better seeing as you got fired from recruitment team LMFAO... Just STFU and let us work

[Grape 680]

It's alright. Once I hit it big on the YouTubes I'll promo the league for free. 

[Zetterberg 863]

3 minutes ago, Moon said:

@ZetterbergI highly suggest you shut your mouth, as we both know you couldnt do any better seeing as you got fired from recruitment team LMFAO... Just STFU and let us work

I went IA lol but sure, And what exactly are you working on? taking more graphics from forum to post on ig? Wait no that’s a one man job apparently.

[Moon 593]

Z... STFU Honestly...

[Masu Chan 456]

[Gaming Ringleader 246]

Ok here’s a solution….. spend a FEW bucks on a Super Bowl ad. Should work if we get a penny per member

[Masu Chan 456]

Remember everyone, we are on the same side here. No reason we can't voice our concerns and have a civil discussion about how to make things better. There's are ways to do this without starting an arguement and I'm pretty sure this is not one of them.

You might not get along with everyone here but we are the VHL. All of us. So, just respect one another and talk it out. (When you have a level head, of course!)

Edited November 15, 2023 by Masu Chan

[TopTiddee2 186]

I will say that this is a very good point made, activity and the general lack of new players is very concerning. Granted I’m not the one to talk but hopefully something happens soon so that we may see new faces

[Rin 138]

6 hours ago, Grape said:

the complete removal of the E might be inevitable

 

Stop, I can only get so hard...

[Spartan 4,408]

I've been pretty outspoken about this in the past so I think people know my position. I appreciate the efforts of the people who run the social media accounts. It is a tireless and thankless effort that has had no direction in the past from the league or from a head of recruitment. However, I think we've conflated marketing with recruitment, and the overall goal of recruitment has not been met. I've said before in the thread of one of my podcasts how these efforts can be analyzed for usefulness - evaluate the growth of our various social media accounts over time and identify how many members have been brought in from social media. To me as VHLM Commissioner, that's all I care about. I'm very glad if recruitment is assisting the M's efforts of engaging our current users by appreciating their work on PTs. That's their secondary purpose to me after bringing in new users. I've asked in the past for recruitment to become the impartial rookie mentors when that topic was brought up, and that suggestion was declined. So while I appreciate those recognition efforts and am fine with them continuing, we have to realize that it's just not the main facet of the job.

 

There's discussions (and negotiations) with YouTubers for a drive now, so there are efforts being made. Some new hires were also brought it and I'd expect them to be brought to speed very soon so Subject isn't the sole social media representative if that's the focus. I think Z's point of refocusing graphics to also include comments or links to join the VHL would be better, and I also have no issue with the idea of giving any member who joins from social media a newly worded "5 point bonus" that our GMs can explain to them. When it comes to real player likeness, I'm not an expert there but if there hasn't been an issue using real players for this many years, I'm not sure our activity as a league is significant enough when we're not even selling a service. We're completely free to participate in and donations are not required whatsoever. It's a free community that is kept alive by the generosity of members who wish to contribute.

 

Last point regarding pay, we've had issues in the past where recruitment members claimed pay without doing the work. It was a VSN issue as they were the roles earning 6+ TPE a week. I have no issue giving recruitment the same responsibility of pointing to their efforts that week. Whether it was working on a graphic that can be easily posted, or communication with reddits/youtubers (which can be tracked in the Recruitment server where all the commissioners, the head of PT and some updaters are), I think weekly - not daily - efforts can be confirmed for pay. If we need written standards to be defined, it's possible. But the point isn't to make this a job, rather that we recognize that making any sort of recruitment related graphic is worth 6 TPE, or taking even an hour or two in a week to reach out to places to advertise is worth 6 TPE. To me the pay isn't about mandating the time every member of the team puts in each week, but rather the idea that any work being put in has such a great effect on the survival of the league.

 

Anyways it's 1:30 AM and I've been swamped almost all day so let me know if I said something that doesn't make sense.

[McLovin 466]

Shit at this point sign me up for the recruitment crew, I got a YT with a combined 3 million channel views I'll run ads for the VHL for free on there

[Enorama 2,038]

26 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I've been pretty outspoken about this in the past so I think people know my position. I appreciate the efforts of the people who run the social media accounts. It is a tireless and thankless effort that has had no direction in the past from the league or from a head of recruitment. However, I think we've conflated marketing with recruitment, and the overall goal of recruitment has not been met. I've said before in the thread of one of my podcasts how these efforts can be analyzed for usefulness - evaluate the growth of our various social media accounts over time and identify how many members have been brought in from social media. To me as VHLM Commissioner, that's all I care about. I'm very glad if recruitment is assisting the M's efforts of engaging our current users by appreciating their work on PTs. That's their secondary purpose to me after bringing in new users. I've asked in the past for recruitment to become the impartial rookie mentors when that topic was brought up, and that suggestion was declined. So while I appreciate those recognition efforts and am fine with them continuing, we have to realize that it's just not the main facet of the job.

 

There's discussions (and negotiations) with YouTubers for a drive now, so there are efforts being made. Some new hires were also brought it and I'd expect them to be brought to speed very soon so Subject isn't the sole social media representative if that's the focus. I think Z's point of refocusing graphics to also include comments or links to join the VHL would be better, and I also have no issue with the idea of giving any member who joins from social media a newly worded "5 point bonus" that our GMs can explain to them. When it comes to real player likeness, I'm not an expert there but if there hasn't been an issue using real players for this many years, I'm not sure our activity as a league is significant enough when we're not even selling a service. We're completely free to participate in and donations are not required whatsoever. It's a free community that is kept alive by the generosity of members who wish to contribute.

 

Last point regarding pay, we've had issues in the past where recruitment members claimed pay without doing the work. It was a VSN issue as they were the roles earning 6+ TPE a week. I have no issue giving recruitment the same responsibility of pointing to their efforts that week. Whether it was working on a graphic that can be easily posted, or communication with reddits/youtubers (which can be tracked in the Recruitment server where all the commissioners, the head of PT and some updaters are), I think weekly - not daily - efforts can be confirmed for pay. If we need written standards to be defined, it's possible. But the point isn't to make this a job, rather that we recognize that making any sort of recruitment related graphic is worth 6 TPE, or taking even an hour or two in a week to reach out to places to advertise is worth 6 TPE. To me the pay isn't about mandating the time every member of the team puts in each week, but rather the idea that any work being put in has such a great effect on the survival of the league.

 

Anyways it's 1:30 AM and I've been swamped almost all day so let me know if I said something that doesn't make sense.

 

[Spartan 4,408]

Just now, Enorama said:

 

Most self aware updater who can't read 600 words

[Enorama 2,038]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

Most self aware updater who can't read 600 words

 

As if you read all 500 words of every MS you approve smh

 

-> check word count

-> quick scan to make sure it's relevant

-> put it in an AI detector if it seems sus

 

ez

[Spartan 4,408]

Just now, Enorama said:

 

As if you read all 500 words of every MS you approve smh

 

-> check word count

-> quick scan to make sure it's relevant

-> put it in an AI detector if it seems sus

 

ez

I do because I'm actually literate??? Do you not read what you update??? I will say I can't evaluate AI stuff that well so I'm fine with people bringing it up later if they recognize AI aspects. Rest of it you're nuts for.

[Beketov 9,031]

11 hours ago, McLovin said:

Get posting to reddit again

Obviously things in here got a bit off the rails after this but just to be clear: that’s not up to us.

 

The recruitment team I know would LOVE to use Reddit again, it was by far our biggest recruitment tool back in the day and brought people in by the hundreds. Unfortunately a member of another community decided to basically shutter that method for every league (except somehow the SHL, they have friends in high places) by saying we violated the Reddit TOS so the subreddit mods for the most part don’t let ads get posted anymore. We also had a former member decide to run unsanctioned ads for their league that basically mimicked us completely (IYKYK) and some mods have essentially black listed us because they equate his [failed for obvious reasons] league with ours.

 

So yeah, TLDR, Reddit is essentially out the window. We try every once in awhile, or we were anyway I can’t confirm if we still are, to rekindle old relationships there but haven’t made any major headway.

[Beketov 9,031]

As @samx pointed out YouTube is kinda a return on investment problem. It’s always been a bit of an expensive gamble that costs more than anything else for the site and brings in hundreds that get dwindled down to a half dozen so the return was never great but it was present and we were willing to do it. Problem is that a lot of the ad reads (which also usually fail to adequately represent the league) have over doubled in price so that return, that was already small, has gotten proportionally smaller essentially.

 

I have voiced an opinion that I wonder if we should push into a space that ISN’T hockey dominated videos, into other gaming and media content, but I don’t know if it’s been explored and found to be super expensive or what. In theory it makes more sense to stick with NHL content since you know you’re getting hockey nerds BUT if that’s our only market it’s a small one and viewers tend to think they are getting something they aren’t. That’s why I want to lean on the “gaming” side of it more than the hockey side and see what happens but again, maybe it has been looked at and was just far too expensive to be reasonable. I know we approve any ad amount before we send off the go ahead and I haven’t seen any proposals for non-hockey channels but that could easily just be “yeah they want like 5x our normal amount so we didn’t even mention it.”

 

TLDR this time: YouTube is expensive as hell and doesn’t usually work to do much but flood the market with members that will be inactive in 2 weeks. Sometimes that flood is worth the price, sometimes it’s not.

[BOOM 8,758]

If you let me advertise on Brazzers etc, I'm sure I could bring in some sleazy new users. Let me know!