Commissioner Acydburn 1,618 Posted February 23 Commissioner Share Posted February 23 On 12/17/1992 at 6:27 PM, Will said: 15.3 - Spirit of Competition i. Best Available Roster - General Managers are expected to put forth their best available roster, every game of the season. Managers found to be violating the spirit of competition within the league, especially, but not limited to, any form of tanking, will face punishment, at the discretion of the League Commissioners. Punishment will range up to, and including, but not limited to: Draft Pick Forfeiture, Salary Cap Fines, GM Dismissal. So we went a whole season without having to implement this rule again. With that said, we do expect our GM's to do their jobs and follow the rules. There is a big difference between leaving your bot goalie in for 1 or 2 extra games. This punishment comes from way more. For that reason, the draft lottery odds are being adjusted as a form of punishment for Seattle @Banackock who played their bot goalie 9 extra times. While Riga @hedgehog337 did go over the required 8, it was by one game and as I stated earlier there is a big difference between 1 and 9. In order to keep things fair to the other teams in the lottery (and not give an advantage to some over the others) we have decided that Seattle will lose 15% odds of first overall pick (they will keep the position just not the odds). This 15% will then be re-distributed as 3% each to the remaining teams in the lottery. That means the lottery odds this season are as follows: 1. Seattle - 10.0% 2. Davos - 23.0% 3. Vancouver - 20.5% 4. Chicago - 18.0% 5. Warsaw - 15.5% 6. Riga - 13% It is the hope of the league that this will not be an every season occurrence and that it was simply a mistake on the part of the GM's rather than malicious tanking and no further adjustments to the rules will be made at this time so please don't prove us wrong and have to make this a seasonal thing that we punish more harshly. - @Commissioner Banackock, Ahma, ShawnGlade and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Damn, I reported this to Bek as an honest mistake. He was on the 10th game for lines and I just rolled with the same lines so he carried over a shit ton until I caught it. (2nd overall just makes my life easier, ya know?) Edited February 23 by Banackock mattyIceman 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Mark my words, I’m playing my back up 72 GP in my final season. AJW 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,102 Posted February 23 Commissioner Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Banackock said: Damn, I reported this to Bek as an honest mistake. He was on the 10th game for lines and I just rolled with the same lines so he carried over a shit ton until I caught it. (2nd overall just makes my life easier, ya know?) Mentioning it to me doesn't mean you didn't do it. You also mentioned it to me when you were at 14 and thus knew you were already over and proceeded to do another 3... ShawnGlade, Banackock and Ahma 1 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Beketov said: Mentioning it to me doesn't mean you didn't do it. You also mentioned it to me when you were at 14 and thus knew you were already over and proceeded to do another 3... Yeah, don’t really care. Shit happens. Was mostly commenting. Rules are rules. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan_8 231 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 uh oh bana ur in trouble LucyXpher and Banackock 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1. Playing a back up goalie as a rebuilder more than 8 times = TANKING 2. Running 5-0-0 strats all season to limit offensive and defensive play = NOT tanking. I'm fine with my punishment, rules are rules. Fair is fair whether you love it or not. Just feels weird to punish people who did it by mistake and not those who literally were trying to tank (so it seems, idk why else anyone would do 5-0-0 unless they had CK, FG players etc - but I know you can prove the more than 8GP for a goalie and it's hard to prove a GM's intentions just by poor strats despite it probably being true lol) Edited February 23 by Banackock Nathan_8 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,911 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 ... so I'm just reading the lottery might be soon Banackock 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank 5,259 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 By mistake... N0HBDY, Ahma, Dom and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW 2,199 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 18 minutes ago, Banackock said: Just feels weird to punish people who did it by mistake and not those who literally were trying to tank Because by mistake, you still broke the rules Nathan_8 and Banackock 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Nathan_8 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW 2,199 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Banackock said: I still love you Banackock 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,531 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 So if the punishment is still just reduced odds but not a punishment to overall position, couldn't a team egregiously tank (perhaps doubling bot starts and losing a majority of those starts) and guarantee 2nd overall at worst in a class with 2 elite players? Almost like the situation this season? We had the warning with WAR/CGY that further infractions would be punished more harshly since it was one of the first instances with the rule being broken and also punished, when do we hit the threshold of actively punishing teams that break these rules? 59 minutes ago, Banackock said: Damn, I reported this to Bek as an honest mistake. He was on the 10th game for lines and I just rolled with the same lines so he carried over a shit ton until I caught it. (2nd overall just makes my life easier, ya know?) Seems like even Bana recognizes this tactic? Multiple "honest" mistakes this season for a very tenured GM.... Ahma and Dom 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Spartan said: So if the punishment is still just reduced odds but not a punishment to overall position, couldn't a team egregiously tank (perhaps doubling bot starts and losing a majority of those starts) and guarantee 2nd overall at worst in a class with 2 elite players? Almost like the situation this season? We had the warning with WAR/CGY that further infractions would be punished more harshly since it was one of the first instances with the rule being broken and also punished, when do we hit the threshold of actively punishing teams that break these rules? Seems like even Bana recognizes this tactic? Multiple "honest" mistakes this season for a very tenured GM.... Just one mistake. Glad you’re here though Spartan! You never miss an opportunity when it comes to me Also, this is actively punishing. Threshold met. I lost lottery odds at winning 1st overall? DeRp. Edited February 23 by Banackock Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,531 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Banackock said: Just one mistake. Glad you’re here though Spartan! You never miss an opportunity when it comes to me Happy to pitch in mate. Arbitration rules weren't an oversight on your part either? Ahma 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,143 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Spartan said: Happy to pitch in mate. Arbitration rules weren't an oversight on your part either? That wasn’t a broken rule? Everyone, quick. Put your PPE on. Spartan is coming!! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,531 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Banackock said: That wasn’t a broken rule? Everyone, quick. Put your PPE on. Spartan is coming!! Said nothing about broken rules, just about "one mistake" when they seem to be adding up. Not like you to miss things after being in the role for this long. Banackock 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,469 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 To be honest, this isn’t even as impactful as some Louth Rule punishments IMO. The punishment here is a slap on the wrist for a class where there’s very much a top 2. Whether that’s appropriate is up to opinion. The VHL will always have shady GM tactics, whether we’re talking this or trying to fleece new GMs or tampering or even weird borderline insider trading policy change proposals that we have to look out for in BoG. So even though not everything will be caught all the time, I’m glad that there’s some effort made to keep it in line. I’m sure that stuff happened in more places than just Seattle this season, and I’d understand if that’s a reason to keep it mild, but we as players should also be doing our best to make sure we get the playing time we deserve and speak up when necessary. Ahma, Garsh and Spartan 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,818 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Let's all have a beer together. v.2, AJW, der meister and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahma 1,444 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 seattle odds should have been dropped lower than the 10% as punishment. 5% and drop in position sounds more fair. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rory 1,944 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 How does this affect the E? mattyIceman and N0HBDY 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarson 744 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I am a complete rule follower so I fully agree that a punishment should happen but I also am a statistics person and have a hard time defining this as tanking based on actual outcomes. Bot goalie played 18 games as per the index and had 3 wins and 2 ties, meaning 8 out of a possible 36 points or 22% of points were earned. Non-bot goalie played 55 games as per the index, had 11 wins and 4 ties, meaning 26 out of a possible 110 points or 23% of points were earned. Seems to me like the 2 goalies gave the team reasonably equal chances of getting points. Obviously this analysis does not take into consideration the quality of the starts the 2 goalies faced. mattyIceman 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ricer13 2,824 Posted February 23 Moderator Share Posted February 23 (edited) Wait, so Riga isn’t getting any punishment??!! Edited February 23 by Ricer13 Jubis, rory and mattyIceman 2 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogan 1,425 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Shame on you seattle for not starting the goalie who hasn't updated since November Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnGlade 1,010 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 It's always the ones you most expect. Ahma 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/145421-s92-spirit-of-competition-punishments/#findComment-1016439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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