Edition 278

[STZ 5,360]

VHL Magazine - Edition 278

[Daniel 565]

Appreciate all the Dadonov love. Whoever wrote the VHLM Spotlight section, you're a beaut

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

Great articles! More solid stuff about the VHLM as well.

 

Yeah, recruitment definitely could use more involvement.

[Kendrick 4,741]

@STZ I won another number for the lottery so I choose you 9-5-1

[hedgehog337 3,483]

I've been waiting this moment for 7 seasons!

 

For the first time ever Zeptenbergs was mentioned in the VHL Magaine.

[Da Trifecta 1,899]

"The team should get better as Ted Doughty an Jacob Worboy continue to develop"

 

Man thanks for the kind words. Oh wait, overlooked. Thanks to whoever wrote the VHLM article

[Toast 887]

@STZ I won an extra two lotto numbers from the recruitment stuff. So 1-1-7 and 1-0-8 please

[FacePuncher 1,343]

3 hours ago, Da Trifecta said:

"The team should get better as Ted Doughty an Jacob Worboy continue to develop"

 

Man thanks for the kind words. Oh wait, overlooked. Thanks to whoever wrote the VHLM article

i forgot, plz don't hate me 

[hedgehog337 3,483]

15 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

i forgot, plz don't hate me 

 

@eaglesfan036,you know what to do.

[Devise 4,475]

Good read all.

 

In regards to awards, adding a defensive d award is something we have off and on discussed for seasons. Implementing it so that it would go to the proper candidates has always been the tough part. In regards to Most Sportsmanlike, I have to completely disagree. It having no rhyme or reason is a pretty laughable deduction, one that had to of been done with no research. If you put points into the discipline stat you take less PIMs. If you don't put points into checking, you hit less. O"Malley had 76 in Discipline by the time he retired, and only 46 in checking. The award goes to players who prove to be productive contributors despite having low PIMs/HITS. It's literally meant for players who build that way, and consistently has gone to members/players who build higher discipline lower checking type players. I don't really see any argument for how it could be "random" haha. 

[Molholt 2,185]

Should add the Edwin Encarnacion Award for most PIMs each season. SHL has this award, and they don't even have someone like Encarnacion who lived and breathed it. 

 

@XaviYEAH! Woods @Draper @Victor @Higgins @JardyB10 

[Will 4,660]

1 hour ago, Mr. Power said:

Good read all.

 

In regards to awards, adding a defensive d award is something we have off and on discussed for seasons. Implementing it so that it would go to the proper candidates has always been the tough part. In regards to Most Sportsmanlike, I have to completely disagree. It having no rhyme or reason is a pretty laughable deduction, one that had to of been done with no research. If you put points into the discipline stat you take less PIMs. If you don't put points into checking, you hit less. O"Malley had 76 in Discipline by the time he retired, and only 46 in checking. The award goes to players who prove to be productive contributors despite having low PIMs/HITS. It's literally meant for players who build that way, and consistently has gone to members/players who build higher discipline lower checking type players. I don't really see any argument for how it could be "random" haha. 

 

Lol the description of Discipline is indeed that you take less PIMs, but does it actually do anything? That's debatable. Aside from O'Malley, the other two candidates that have been on the ballot for the past several years is 3 Moons and Delicious, both of whom have 40 discipline. Neither of them have much checking either so that's understandable, but my point was that you see a player like mine who is roughly the same size as O'Malley with 40 checking and discipline and he gets more hits/pims in a season that O'Malley's career. It could be caused by team make-up or whatever, but the discipline stat has been widely suspected as useless by many other than me so I'm not sure it's a 'laughable' stance. 

[Molholt 2,185]

5 minutes ago, Draper said:

 

Lol the description of Discipline is indeed that you take less PIMs, but does it actually do anything? That's debatable. Aside from O'Malley, the other two candidates that have been on the ballot for the past several years is 3 Moons and Delicious, both of whom have 40 discipline. Neither of them have much checking either so that's understandable, but my point was that you see a player like mine who is roughly the same size as O'Malley with 40 checking and discipline and he gets more hits/pims in a season that O'Malley's career. It could be caused by team make-up or whatever, but the discipline stat has been widely suspected as useless so I'm not sure how you can call the article laughable. 

 

I'd say it definitely does do something. Look at my hit numbers - it completely negates the points I put into checking.

[Will 4,660]

1 hour ago, Mr. Power said:

It's literally meant for players who build that way, and consistently has gone to members/players who build higher discipline lower checking type players. I don't really see any argument for how it could be "random" haha. 

 

And if you want to talk about no research, 6 of the last 10 winners have had 40 discipline. 

[Will 4,660]

4 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I'd say it definitely does do something. Look at my hit numbers - it completely negates the points I put into checking.

 

Yeah it certainly could. The pussy award is stupid either way

 

[STZ 5,360]

9 hours ago, Kendrick said:

@STZ I won another number for the lottery so I choose you 9-5-1

 

3 hours ago, Toast said:

@STZ I won an extra two lotto numbers from the recruitment stuff. So 1-1-7 and 1-0-8 please

 

Will be added next edition. Thanks fellas

[solas 1,951]

1 hour ago, Molholt said:

SHL has this award, and they don't even have someone like Encarnacion who lived and breathed it. 

Hey!  I'll have you know Turd Ferguson dedicated his life to penalty minutes!  And is a hall of famer, for some reason.

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

3 hours ago, ADwyer87 said:

i forgot, plz don't hate me 

that's a bannin

[Devise 4,475]

2 hours ago, Draper said:

 

And if you want to talk about no research, 6 of the last 10 winners have had 40 discipline. 

 

Yeah but ballots still had people who were discipline focused/lacked checking. And lacking checking also goes to help the stat as you yourself already indicated. In regards to putting points into it doing something, we have seasons of evidence of that being the case, including prominent Hall of Fame players who built with low checking and higher discipline. Rafter, Slaughter, Grigs all come to mind. Tons of established well respected members who know how to build players in this league have added to discipline and seen it do exactly what it describes it does. The award doesn't go just to that though, and if a player has say 40-50 checking and even 40 discipline there is a chance that if they post 100 points and only put up 8 PIMs that they are going to also be considered for the award and on the ballot. So picking who has won and who hasn't doesn't really make a solid argument for whether or not the attribute does anything.

 

I've seen enough people (myself included) put TPE into discipline, only to watch as hit totals become lower as do PIMs to know that it does something. 

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

I feel like it's a different argument as to whether Discipline does something and whether it deserves an award. Sure it does something. Doesn't mean it's not a stupid award in my opinion. There are awards for people who score a lot even with few hits - it's called MVP, Top Scorer, Most Assists, etc., which  Rafter, Slaughter, Grig, et al were able to contend for quicker because of no points in strength/checking. Really, being able to take Face Offs is a tangible skill too, but I don't see a "Top Centerman" award.

 

(I'm against a Top Defensive Defenseman though unless I can see some proof that the common stats for that aren't propped up by how bad a team you're on and how many shots against you.)

[Will 4,660]

On 3/22/2016 at 2:33 PM, CowboyinAmerica said:

(I'm against a Top Defensive Defenseman though unless I can see some proof that the common stats for that aren't propped up by how bad a team you're on and how many shots against you.)

 

That's pretty much our main worry too, as nice as it would be to have another award for defensemen.

[Victor 10,942]

Best decision would be to just straight up change most sportsmanlike to most PIMs. Because irony.

[Devise 4,475]

15 hours ago, Victor said:

Best decision would be to just straight up change most sportsmanlike to most PIMs. Because irony.

 

I'd probably be fine with this provided that it would be most PIMs in conjunction with points, hits, and other stats. It's like @CowboyinAmerica's argument against the Most Sportsmanlike award, I really don't think you guys understand the actual point of these type of awards. The VHL is already a very very narrow league in terms of player build options. That isn't because our system lacks the ability to have variety, it's because we have so many awards tailored to specific builds. Everyone wants to be win awards and be a good player, so they tend to consistently all build the same archetype. But with awards like Most Sportsmanlike, while minor, it encourages members to at least experiment with making a disciplined player. Keep in mind though they still have to make an effective player to win the award. 30 Points and 0 PIMs holds nothing to 90 points and 4 PIMs. The fact that we have examples of players who did embody this award and win it year after year proves it's justification. That dosen't make it the most important award, and it's still low on the tier list of relevancy for HoF. But it still highlights something that probably should be in members minds. You can do some research, but a lot of these highlight less PIM players end up being very good, as do their teams. Taking more penalties can negatively affect your team, your ice time etc. 

 

It's why honestly Victor I'd be perfectly fine if we added the award you mentioned on top of it. It'd be interesting to see if someone could make a high checking, high fighting PIM based player who could average that point per game pace or higher. But what incentive do people have to try and do that, other than personal curiosity? It isn't like they'd be more recognized for it, some of us more "historian" types would probably write a few MS about it. But it isn't like awards like this somehow ruin the integrity of the league. They exist on the fringes, to encourage and reward the few elements of variety we do have. All the while they still aren't even counted on the same platform as the real awards like top goalie, top d, MVP etc. But that isn't to say they shouldn't count for something. Imagine a player who comes in and records 8 straight 90 point seasons, all while only getting 0-4 PIMs a season. Even if he doesn't win any other major award, winning that Most Sportsmanlike for 8 seasons on their attempt at HoF would probably justify them getting in alone. Which is how it should be. If someone can dominate an area of the league like that it deserves recognition. 

[JardyB10 4,865]

The first thing I'm going to do on my next, NEXT player is max out discipline. I would do it with my next player but he's going to be a thug defenceman.