League Ideas

[Banackock 8,143]

2 hours ago, boubabi said:

not a huge fan of the 12 tpe mark, as it would mess all the tpe records (including mine of course) done in earlier seasons

 

Would rather like to see a different update scale with player type instead of that

Can't protect your records forever. They mean fuck all without any players in the league. 

[boubabi 4,725]

upping the tpe isn't the solution. there's a balance that works with weekly 9 tpe

 

it's really more about balancing the tpe the welfare member earns and the PT member earns

[Bushito 1,945]

1 hour ago, punkhippie said:

To those that say 1 PT for two players works in the EFL, it's because your two players have to be one offense one defense. End of story

It would work here as well easily. I have seen no argument against t that makes sense.

[Gudnason 607]

Just now, Bushito said:

It would work here as well easily. I have seen no argument against t that makes sense.

 

I should just make a dual-threat goalie here and line him up at right wing and snipe for 100 goals a year.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

11 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

 

I should just make a dual-threat goalie here and line him up at right wing and snipe for 100 goals a year.

 

Quit whining

[Gudnason 607]

12 minutes ago, KGR said:

 

Quit whining

 

Seems amusing coming from you lol

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

1 minute ago, punkhippie said:

 

Seems amusing coming from you lol

 

Shhh dont get banned

[Spade18 1,308]

I may not have been here for the longest time so im not exactly sure what will work or not.

 

but it seems there's a major outcry for the chat to come back.

 

I dont really understand why this has been ignored, and its an easy way to keep people on the site, which will turn into more activity, with out fucking up TPE structure or salary cap.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Banackock 8,143]

1 hour ago, Spade18 said:

I may not have been here for the longest time so im not exactly sure what will work or not.

 

but it seems there's a major outcry for the chat to come back.

 

I dont really understand why this has been ignored, and its an easy way to keep people on the site, which will turn into more activity, with out fucking up TPE structure or salary cap.

 

Just my 2 cents

From what I'm aware of, the chat is unable to come back due to the sites updated. so basically, those who run this site fucked up and took it away for whatever reason. Is this correct, @Higgins?

 

In my eyes, we swap forums. That's a nice place to start. It gets old coming on somedays and not being able to log in for hours because the shits down a couple times a month. Jcink is a nice place to start, no? I get being different, but hey. We sink or we float, right? Lots of work to move the forums. If that's what we're scared of, we may as well all create a player else where and go inactive on VHL right now. 

[boubabi 4,725]

Jcink is meh

Ip boards is customizable and kinda safe

[Banackock 8,143]

30 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Jcink is meh

Ip boards is customizable and kinda safe

That's what were on now? I never see the SHL, etc down. We're down once a month, lol. It's veen a complaint from some members.

 

Time to listen to whatever members we have left. What they dislike and then make changes based of those. 

[Gudnason 607]

EFL-style shoutbox! Fuck @JardyB10 and what he thinks lol

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

19 minutes ago, Banackock said:

That's what were on now? I never see the SHL, etc down. We're down once a month, lol. It's veen a complaint from some members.

 

Time to listen to whatever members we have left. What they dislike and then make changes based of those. 

 

50 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Jcink is meh

Ip boards is customizable and kinda safe

 

Time to reiterate what Boubs said. Jcink is shit compared to IP.

[jRuutu 2,475]

9 hours ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

this is probably why the VHL hasnt changed much at all. people dont want their records to be broken. 

 

@jRuutu i love you man, you're such a great member and you are just a good dude in general and we all understand your hate for welfare but your thinking of removing it is assbackwards. you post in there about how many people post in it and yes you need to understand that 60% of the league probably does it. So you want to punish them when 60% of this league does it? that is not good for business. The way you should think of it is we should now, keep welfare the same. but like everyone has been saying up the PT to 8/9 TPE for MS/Graphic

At least some of the 60% will start to do media or graphic if the welfare system is not there. I refuse to believe they all just leave, only reason most are not doing the media/graphic work now is because they don´t have to. 4 points from welfare is enough to create a solid player in todays VHL.

 

But bumping the pay for PT to 8 or 9 is a good place to start as long as the suggested ´free tpe´ system is not put in place. (Claim 6 if did media spot in some other league)

[jRuutu 2,475]

Woops, double

Edited September 18, 2017 by jRuutu

[Gudnason 607]

[hedgehog337 3,483]

4 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

 

banned

[Beketov 9,103]

14 hours ago, jRuutu said:

This.

 

Just because some welfare players are active around the boards does not mean it´s a good system or working. Then again, if you are on welfare and active around the board, you more than likely could put together for example 500 word article each week, roughly 70 words a day, that is not much.

I’ve had weeks where I need to take Welfare with Sokolov because I absolutely had no time between work and home life to do anything; let alone sit down for a podcast, writing, or GFX. Does that not make me an active member of the board? I really don’t see why the hate boner for Welfare is so strong. It keeps people here, that’s the point. Go through a weekly welfare claim and I bet you won’t find a majority of people do all their posting in there and no where else. Keeping people on the board with welfare will keep them engaging in other ways.

 

EDIT:

Alright, finally read the rest of this so time to edit the rest of my thoughts in:

 

Does everyone who hates on Welfare really think that everyone using it is just lazy? Is that the pervading thought? Is it the name that’s putting this hate for it in your heads because I prefer calling it Pension FYI. I hate taking Welfare, go ahead and ask @DollarAndADream how much I apologize for it every time in the Locker Room. I take it when I have to, it’s a safety blanket for weeks I don’t have the free time to devote to doing a PT. That isn’t the case for everyone, for some people it’s the only time they have, and that’s fine. Should people be punished for being busy but still wanting to have a player? I don’t see why at all. They WANT to be here, if they didn’t they wouldn’t even bother with the welfare claim. Why should we shove them out the door because they have less time than the people posting PT’s do?

 

I think @Devise is exactly right. I may have actually argued against him in the BOG a few hours ago on this because it was explained better here (yay, the true purpose of debate showing!). Moving the cap to 12 per week (honestly I don’t even see a reason to split it between welfare and non, welfare guys simply won’t have enough points going around to hit 12) and having the PT be 8 of that is fair. Give all welfare claims 4. That means a PT is worth double a welfare claim, seem’s worth it IMO. The only real argument in here against that is @boubabi complaining about his records. However he’s also the usual guy advocating for changing award names so... I guess I’ll just use your old argument against you? Time’s change. TPE records are the lowest form of record and they are constantly getting inflated anyway so I don’t see that as a valid argument. If anything the fact that you could attain that record is in part because the weekly cap has jumped before, we used to get 4 instead of 6 for PT’s. So long as we can balance things at 3 extra TPE per week I’m all for this. It offers a bigger gap between being an all PT player and an all welfare player while still allowing those without the free time to continue earning as they are.

 

Going all the way back to the OP though I’ll respond to the changes @Banackock suggested:

 

1. Player store could use more variation sure but we used to have the straight player store money = TPE and it didn’t really work. I’d rather re-work it to offer more PT based rewards or something. Basically TPE but in ways that need to be earned. What you suggested equals out to 9 TPE for 3 million (or less) which is way too much for doing nothing. Buying doubles weeks and stuff is nice because it’s basically like buying 6 TPE but the work still needs to be put in.

 

2. Honestly the VHLM has too many issues to discuss in here. I personally am of the camp that thinks it doesn’t need to go but needs a clean slate and a whole new way of looking at how it is handled.

 

3. Personally I never liked the idea of these. It works in the VHLM but I don’t see the benefit at the VHL level. Not if it’s just a “post 1 word get 1 TPE” kinda thing.

 

4. Maybe. I’ve never stuck around in the SHL long enough to notice what these are but the concept is fine. At least as long as it stays balanced in that GFX and podcast people can get the same reward. Nothing should ever JUST reward writers or GFX or what have you. Needs to be balanced as much as possible.

 

5. @Higgins should be making a decision on this today. A few names have been debated in the BOG over the past few days.

 

6. On the surface I don’t like this one but I do understand your argument. For example, as soon as I started doing well with Holik I got nailed with regression and that sucked. For sure if we did this we would need pre-and post records to account for keeping our old records intact. Would also need to be very careful with how regression is handled. Personally I think 12 is too long but 10 might be alright if handled correctly.

 

7. I get the argument. I don’t have an exact suggestion on how but I do get the argument. GM’s tend to make their players suffer for their teams and 2nd player didn’t really help because it involves a lot more work. I don’t have an answer for this one.

 

Also, since this is the longest post I’ve made in awhile. Let’s respond to a few other things I saw in here:

 

1. God no we should not switch to jcink. We honestly don’t go down much and I’m fairly certain jcink goes down more. The site itself is stable, our down time (which is not nearly as much as was stated, maybe once a month for like a day) I think is usually our hosting service sending us down. Maybe we should look at different hosts? That would be @sterling’s domain I believe. I helped SHL move to Jcink because what they were on was worse and it’s free. That does not mean that it’s better than what we have. IP is paid for a reason; it offers far more stability and flexibility.

 

2. I don’t care for the idea of 1 PT for 2 players. The second player is supposed to be extra work or a depth welfare player IMO. If you want 2 superstars then put in the work.

 

3. I also don’t care for the “post a PT somewhere else, get it here” kinda thing. People think welfare is bad; at least they are posting here. You could get people being paid more than welfare to only update here and that’s it; how is that fair? A good suggestion in the BOG was to have a PT posted on a sister site account for +1 in a welfare claim here. That seems slightly more fair to me since at least you have to still come in and post here. Hopefully not just that welfare claim but better than getting points for doing literally nothing on this site.

 

4. I would also love to see some variation of the chat back. The Discord helps but not everyone is on there. I think it is a limitation that we can’t get around but it might be worth looking into other kind of chat providers. Something must be out there that works I would imagine.

 

There was more in here to respond to but honestly I can’t think of everything right now. If you posted something you want my thoughts on tell me and I’ll give them. I just don’t remember every point that was brought up because there were a lot.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Beketov

[jRuutu 2,475]

26 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I’ve had weeks where I need to take Welfare with Sokolov because I absolutely had no time between work and home life to do anything; let alone sit down for a podcast, writing, or GFX. Does that not make me an active member of the board? I really don’t see why the hate boner for Welfare is so strong. It keeps people here, that’s the point. Go through a weekly welfare claim and I bet you won’t find a majority of people do all their posting in there and no where else. Keeping people on the board with welfare will keep them engaging in other ways.

But there are people who claim it more than just here and there, they build their players with welfare. 4 points is just too much for writing your name in a thread and then updating if in the other end you get 6 points for doing a 500 word article for example. (PT payout will hopefully soon be improved) Also the argument that welfare allows the users to be active in other areas of the site? If they got time to hang around in VHL, they should have time to write a 500 word article, or introduce something new between media spots/Fan590´s, write 300 word article that gives you 3 tpe?

 

The hate boner for welfare players comes from there, very little effort compared to players who do PT´s. In the sim a welfare player is still a solid player, more than likely plays in the 2nd line/2nd pairing while the PT player is on the first. Playing time difference is not huge and performance in the sim is not big enough between welfare and PT players.

[Beketov 9,103]

Just now, jRuutu said:

But there are people who claim it more than just here and there, they build their players with welfare. 4 points is just too much for writing your name in a thread and then updating if in the other end you get 6 points for doing a 500 word article for example. (PT payout will hopefully soon be improved) Also the argument that welfare allows the users to be active in other areas of the site? If they got time to hang around in VHL, they should have time to write a 500 word article, or introduce something new between media spots/Fan590´s, write 300 word article that gives you 3 tpe?

 

The hate boner for welfare players comes from there, very little effort compared to players who do PT´s. In the sim a welfare player is still a solid player, more than likely plays in the 2nd line/2nd pairing while the PT player is on the first. Playing time difference is not huge and performance in the sim is not big enough between welfare and PT players.

That’s a fair case and I think the proposals we’ve made in here could help that. I don’t think saying that all welfare players can post PT’s or GTFO is the answer. You’re advocating pushing people out the door because they want to post things that aren’t PT’s.

 

Let’s assume you are right and they have enough free time on the board to post a PT instead of welfare. For example sake let’s say they have half an hour of VHL time per day. A welfare post takes about a minute. They have 29 minutes left to post in any game discussion or the locker room or whatever. That’s 29 minutes of active league time. If they post a PT instead though, you’re talking at least 20 minutes; likely more for something that needs to be researched and stuff. Not only does that post not create much discussion (it could but PT’s don’t tend to) but it also takes them far more time. That leaves at best 10 minutes to do other things. Do you see my argument here? Yes, if they have the time to devote to other areas they could do a PT. But they could also contribute much more to the league by NOT doing a PT.

 

I think if the changes suggested in here get made and we make PT’s worth at least double that of welfare it will offer a nice enough gap that Welfare players can still serve a role but PT players are rewarded more for doing more. That seems like the best course of action.

[jRuutu 2,475]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

That’s a fair case and I think the proposals we’ve made in here could help that. I don’t think saying that all welfare players can post PT’s or GTFO is the answer. You’re advocating pushing people out the door because they want to post things that aren’t PT’s.

 

Let’s assume you are right and they have enough free time on the board to post a PT instead of welfare. For example sake let’s say they have half an hour of VHL time per day. A welfare post takes about a minute. They have 29 minutes left to post in any game discussion or the locker room or whatever. That’s 29 minutes of active league time. If they post a PT instead though, you’re talking at least 20 minutes; likely more for something that needs to be researched and stuff. Not only does that post not create much discussion (it could but PT’s don’t tend to) but it also takes them far more time. That leaves at best 10 minutes to do other things. Do you see my argument here? Yes, if they have the time to devote to other areas they could do a PT. But they could also contribute much more to the league by NOT doing a PT.

 

I think if the changes suggested in here get made and we make PT’s worth at least double that of welfare it will offer a nice enough gap that Welfare players can still serve a role but PT players are rewarded more for doing more. That seems like the best course of action.

I still find it hard to believe even half of the welfare claimers actually do that, post around VHL actively? Maybe they do, I don´t know, but just sounds amazing how they can be ´active´ members, but still cant do PT´s, even every second week?

 

I don´t know what kind daily schedules people have, but even with the 30 minute schedule, you should have enough time during the week to put together 500 word article. Does not have to be massive research behind the article, just write little bit each day, when weekend comes, finish it.

 

I can of course talk only about myself here, but the daily check takes at max 10 minutes, that includes posting in game threads, checking what goes in LR and around the VHL. Usually not much happen in VHL, surely not every day and rarely something everybody is going to comment on.

 

I hope the PT payout increase happens as fast as possible.

 

 

[Beketov 9,103]

5 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I don´t know what kind daily schedules people have, but even with the 30 minute schedule, you should have enough time during the week to put together 500 word article. Does not have to be massive research behind the article, just write little bit each day, when weekend comes, finish it.

Im not saying they can't. I'm saying is it worth it to force people into doing that and having that take up all their VHL time or is it better to have them engaging in other aspects of the league? Personally so would rather see welfare members posting in discussions and games and stuff more than posting 1 PT and having that be all their time. I'm sure they would as well because it doesn't make the league feel like a chore.

 

The discussion is happening, that's the first step. Things need to be taken into consideration but some good points have been brought up in here that welfare players are being given too much leeway which is a fair argument. I know I would hate if I worked 40 hours a week for $600 dollars and had someone come in for 2 hours and get paid $400. I think that's partly what's happening right now and we do need to correct it. I just don't think firing all those people is the way to go about it.

[boubabi 4,725]

The record that I would likely break again, yes. Good thing I said such thing as a joke and people took it seriously

 

The 12 tpe is more stupid because it will unbalance the ratings and the players but hey, nice dig

[boubabi 4,725]

I also like how you compared this to the award name change like it made any sense

[jRuutu 2,475]

14 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Im not saying they can't. I'm saying is it worth it to force people into doing that and having that take up all their VHL time or is it better to have them engaging in other aspects of the league? Personally so would rather see welfare members posting in discussions and games and stuff more than posting 1 PT and having that be all their time. I'm sure they would as well because it doesn't make the league feel like a chore.

 

The discussion is happening, that's the first step. Things need to be taken into consideration but some good points have been brought up in here that welfare players are being given too much leeway which is a fair argument. I know I would hate if I worked 40 hours a week for $600 dollars and had someone come in for 2 hours and get paid $400. I think that's partly what's happening right now and we do need to correct it. I just don't think firing all those people is the way to go about it.

I think the league should push the welfare people more, they are getting too comfortable and when some people in charge are using the same system, very little is going to happen to it. Sure in the bigger pictures it´s better to have as many players in the league as possible, but still going to say it, I find it hard to believe even half of the welfare users comment in stuff around the league, looking at the game threads for example, very rarely even see 5 replies in one thread. Maybe they indeed are in the LR´s and talk there? I don´t know, but league should absolutely consider getting rid of users who only claim welfare and rarely post around the VHL.  Keeping players like that around only make the stats look better, new people will see what is going on eventually.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by jRuutu