Time for a change in award voting

[Arce 755]

The league has been rigged for years, time to stop this corruption!

[Victor 11,009]

1. The Stolzy is an award with no lasting impact on a players career yet gets what appears to be a disproportionate amount of controversy. Maybe we should just get rid of it?

 

2. The difference between L and Zetterstrom is as clear as day if you want to see it - one had a lot more hits and played on a better team (read: didnt have his stats inflated). 

 

3. On any voting committee if you have different people voting each season, you will get different views and therefore different results.

 

As this appears to be entirely about the Stolzy result, I believe discussing anything further is irrelevant to the controversy at hand.

[Ledge 1,131]

27 minutes ago, Victor said:

The difference between L and Zetterstrom is as clear as day if you want to see it - one had a lot more hits and played on a better team (read: didnt have his stats inflated). 

 

I can for sure attest to this. 

[diacope 1,696]

I'm just here to give shit to all the managers who forgot or didn't vote, get better scrubs or I'll take over your job

Edited March 12, 2021 by 16z

[rory 1,943]

1 hour ago, Victor said:

2. The difference between L and Zetterstrom is as clear as day if you want to see it - one had a lot more hits and played on a better team (read: didnt have his stats inflated). 

damn u calling new york good last season?  that argument would've worked if gobeil won, BUD

 

[Jubis 1,350]

0

45 minutes ago, Ledge_and_Dairy said:

 

I can for sure attest to this. 

 

Zetterstrom is also the first point per game rookie defenseman since season 65. 

More points than 

L

Roque davis 

Eric summers 

 

Just saying

 

 

It's not just the Stolzy.  Ive had issues with many award winners since i joined the league. Im just usually quiet lol

 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

5 hours ago, Jubis said:

Is it flawed ? .... yes !  Do I have an instant solution ? NO! 

 

Still can't believe Couture wasn't even discussed for the Funk. 

 

6 goals to 33 goals.  Yes i said 6 goals !!!

29 points to 65 points 

Biased  as ex calgary gm but still

Mind = blown 

Wheres the 1st gen love when it comes to awards??

 

How is an almost 30 goal ,50 pts player. scoring 40 goals , 90 points a bigger improvement. 

 

 

My 2 cents. 

I'm not a GM anymore so expect a much more edgy outspoken jubis  from now on. 

 

 

 

 

Kisslinger

[Victor 11,009]

1 hour ago, rory said:

damn u calling new york good last season?  that argument would've worked if gobeil won, BUD

 

I'm saying Entertainment and Rush had a much more complete defensive performance to compete against while Lite matched them on a marginally better NY team without having as good competition.

 

1 hour ago, Jubis said:

0

 

Zetterstrom is also the first point per game rookie defenseman since season 65. 

More points than 

L

Roque davis 

Eric summers 

 

Just saying

 

 

It's not just the Stolzy.  Ive had issues with many award winners since i joined the league. Im just usually quiet lol

 

I look forward to reading your long detailed list of obvious award errors over the years where the clear-cut winner was robbed by the dumb BOG.

[frescoelmo 1,282]

Tldr; transparency and open discussion are mutually exclusive.

[Victor 11,009]

Tldr; transparency and open discussion are mutually exclusive.

[frescoelmo 1,282]

38 minutes ago, Victor said:

Tldr; transparency and open discussion are mutually exclusive.

 

Sheep

[Spartan 4,530]

I really like the idea of having a couple sentences of justification as to why each person was voted for, and I think whoever runs the voting would be able to pick one of the voters for each player/person and ask them to write a quick brief. This could probably be then posted after the presentation by someone like ADV who does the BoG Updates. Keep the award show for VSN's content, keep BoG comments for another day.

 

At the same time, consider whether these changes are being asked for transparency or if people just want something to target when they dissent. Most people are probably asking for transparency, but the comments last night showed that some people just want to have someone or something to disagree with, and that can be harmful. Complaining for the sake of complaining helps no one.

[Advantage 2,899]

I wont speak to the discussions other than I am fine with justifying picks (generally I try to anyway) but voting was up for a day and a half (posted Monday around 5 pm) and was tallied Wednesday morning...which simply was not long enough.  That's why there was only 9..a few of us posted after expressing disappointment with missing (including myself).

 

It's tough when it's that short cause I was in the ER for the entire first day it was up...so thats part of the issue with sample size of voters too.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Advantage

[Banackock 8,122]

16 hours ago, GustavMattias said:

 

We do. It's hit or miss, sometimes I think there's a lot of great, educated debate and some other times I question who's reading the threads and who's just filling in the ballot.

 

Again, I'm not trying to put myself above anyone else in BoG. As I mentioned in my last post here there was one season where I forgot about voting entirely.

Sounds like a BoG member issue then.

[gorlab 4,321]

13 hours ago, Tate said:

 

Look at Beav, he stepped down from his role as a commish mostly due to the constant negative criticism he took from being in the role. 

 

 

Beav actually stepped down so he could go commish the UFC sim league with dil.  Don't let the mainstream media deceive you.

[diacope 1,696]

21 minutes ago, gorlab said:

 

Beav actually stepped down so he could go commish the UFC sim league with dil.  Don't let the mainstream media deceive you.

 

Isn't that the really active fighting simulation league that just started? Sounds like a ton of fun!

[Gustav 6,468]

12 hours ago, tfong said:

Bring back award committee and people that actively are willing to put the effort into it

 

A point about this I'd like to make is...how would this work?

 

When you think about "people who are actively willing to put in effort", you'd likely consider quite a few BoG members in that category. I'd assume the old Award Committee...that wasn't discussing anything and voted completely illogically at times (at least from what I heard from @Phil a while back)...was also put together with the intent of bringing in said people.

 

So it doesn't matter who's selected, we're going to have the same problem. UNLESS people are required to discuss votes before submitting them. UNLESS voting (and by extension, discussion) becomes mandatory and expected. UNLESS there are guidelines to make legitimate discussion happen. The problem exists otherwise and "lol just don't let BoG do it" (not that you said it like that, because you didn't) isn't a solution.

[Victor 11,009]

9 hours ago, Advantage said:

I wont speak to the discussions other than I am fine with justifying picks (generally I try to anyway) but voting was up for a day and a half (posted Monday around 5 pm) and was tallied Wednesday morning...which simply was not long enough.  That's why there was only 9..a few of us posted after expressing disappointment with missing (including myself).

 

It's tough when it's that short cause I was in the ER for the entire first day it was up...so thats part of the issue with sample size of voters too.

I think there have been 8-10 voters each of the past few seasons, so 9 did not seem out of place.

 

That said, @Quik does set unrealistic turnarounds in the offseason schedule and really the awards ceremony should happen later in the offseason imo.

[Beketov 9,095]

4 hours ago, GustavMattias said:

 

A point about this I'd like to make is...how would this work?

 

When you think about "people who are actively willing to put in effort", you'd likely consider quite a few BoG members in that category. I'd assume the old Award Committee...that wasn't discussing anything and voted completely illogically at times (at least from what I heard from @Phil a while back)...was also put together with the intent of bringing in said people.

 

So it doesn't matter who's selected, we're going to have the same problem. UNLESS people are required to discuss votes before submitting them. UNLESS voting (and by extension, discussion) becomes mandatory and expected. UNLESS there are guidelines to make legitimate discussion happen. The problem exists otherwise and "lol just don't let BoG do it" (not that you said it like that, because you didn't) isn't a solution.

All of those things were set. The issues with the award committee were somewhat self inflicted but also somewhat necessary IMO if the intention is unbiased voting. For example, no GM’s were allowed to participate. This was to remove the old issue of GM’s voting for their own guys but GM’s also happen to be some of our most active members so we limited our pool of super active guys right off the bat. After that we had the 3 season limit which was intended to keep fresh people coming in so that discussion didn’t get stale and therefore stop happening. Problem with this is that every few seasons the criteria of what people deem important changes because everyone has a different opinion so there’s no consistency in how awards are judged, for example Beav almost winning the Boulet with like 80 hits because that season’s committee liked +/- or something.

 

I could go on. The point is there are flaws no matter who is chosen, BOG are as trustworthy as anyone else to handle this and from my experience overseeing both the BOG discussions and voting go significantly smoother than the AC ones ever did.

[BOOM 8,809]

You need members like me on an awards committee to be honest. Vote me!

[bigAL 2,176]

With all this talk of finding an impartial group of people who follow the league so closely that they have a strong understanding of how things are going every season..... why not get VSN to vote on the awards??

[Beketov 9,095]

28 minutes ago, bigAL said:

With all this talk of finding an impartial group of people who follow the league so closely that they have a strong understanding of how things are going every season..... why not get VSN to vote on the awards??

How are they any more impartial or involved than the BOG? I guess that’s my big thing with any kind of “replace the BOG” logic is whether or not it actually fixes anything or if it’s just “I hate them because I’m supposed to I guess.” Change for the sake of it isn’t improvement, it’s just sideways movement.

 

Now discussion on transparency or justification or whatever is different but just shifting it to a different group I don’t think fixes that.

[Esso2264 774]

Award Committee was disbanded in like S67, which is like a season from the big boom of members we got, pretty sure when i was in it, some people were in their like 3rd run in the committee and you're were not suppose to, i feel like we have enough members atm that we could do an award committee again and it having super active members that arent GMs

[Quik 4,113]

3 hours ago, Victor said:

That said, @Quik does set unrealistic turnarounds in the offseason schedule and really the awards ceremony should happen later in the offseason imo.

I mean, for the most part when would you suggest doing them that would give enough time to get awards predictions in ahead of the next season?
 

The regular season awards ballot should be done earlier imo, instead of waiting for the finals to end. Getting those done then have a vote on Kanou isn’t so “unrealistic” imo 

[bigAL 2,176]

47 minutes ago, Beketov said:

How are they any more impartial or involved than the BOG?

I think their mandate is to follow the games closer than anyone else. I’m sure they would have their entire staff vote on the awards too.