Remove eight-season limit?

[Banackock 7,666]

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5 minutes ago, Draper said:

 

On that note, suggestions for new advertising locations are very welcome. I believe we've tried a few different paid options such as reddit and facebook. 

HockeyForum.com --> 21,387 members (04/11, 2016 had 3,800+ members online)

 

HF Boards ---> 101,638 members

 

HockeyForums.NET ---> 1,735 members (535 currently online) 

 

hockeyfights.com --> 155,778 members

 

Leftwinglock Fantasy Hockey --> 7,000 members

 

EA Sports Forums ---> 30,000 Members with all the games (guessing?) Couple thousand with NHL atleast?

 

International hockey forums -->7400 members (356 active currently I guess)

 

Suddendeathhockey --> 700 members

 

Fhockey --> 2,700 members

 

STHS Forum --> 2,280 members

 

Now yes, they're not sim leagues exactly, but in a lot of them there's areas for fnatasy hockey etc.. You also can't tell me that on a site of that many people on most of those forums, there's not people like you and I who love hockey and would love the idea of the VHL and what it has to offer. 

 

Before you, Advantage, is roughly 300,000 worth of members on forums. No idea how many are active, but there. As I said, out of 10,000 active people - youd have to think there's SOME who are looking for something like this or would be interested in something like this. Never hurts to try. Don't be annoying when advertising the VHL. Don't spam sites EVERY off-season like the SHL does and keep it to one post on the site. Bump it as much as you want, but don't have 5 different posts.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

23 minutes ago, Banackock said:

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HockeyForum.com --> 21,387 members (04/11, 2016 had 3,800+ members online)

 

HF Boards ---> 101,638 members

 

HockeyForums.NET ---> 1,735 members (535 currently online) 

 

hockeyfights.com --> 155,778 members

 

Leftwinglock Fantasy Hockey --> 7,000 members

 

EA Sports Forums ---> 30,000 Members with all the games (guessing?) Couple thousand with NHL atleast?

 

International hockey forums -->7400 members (356 active currently I guess)

 

Suddendeathhockey --> 700 members

 

Fhockey --> 2,700 members

 

STHS Forum --> 2,280 members

 

Now yes, they're not sim leagues exactly, but in a lot of them there's areas for fnatasy hockey etc.. You also can't tell me that on a site of that many people on most of those forums, there's not people like you and I who love hockey and would love the idea of the VHL and what it has to offer. 

 

Before you, Advantage, is roughly 300,000 worth of members on forums. No idea how many are active, but there. As I said, out of 10,000 active people - youd have to think there's SOME who are looking for something like this or would be interested in something like this. Never hurts to try. Don't be annoying when advertising the VHL. Don't spam sites EVERY off-season like the SHL does and keep it to one post on the site. Bump it as much as you want, but don't have 5 different posts.

I believe a few of these we've tried, like HF Boards for example. They are very against advertising there. I've tried advertising on a few hockey team websites with no luck, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Especially with hockey fans possibly looking for something to do during the off-season.

 

Kendrick found me on Canucks.com Forums. I almost got a couple of people from there, but one quickly went inactive because he's a huge fantasy hockey member and is basically in too many leagues. Kind of like myself, but I don't mind it most of the time.

 

 

 

I like the idea of getting rid of the season cap, or even with penalties if you want to go longer. Yeah, if the big heads here don't recreate then it would impact the drafts, but I think a lot of people will still be recreating.

 

I also always hated the idea of how the cap is out of draft. You get 8 seasons to play after you're drafted. For a long of people, mostly first-gens, that means one of those seasons is in the VHLM. I always found that dumb. You shouldn't have to waste a season of action in the VHLM. That 8 season cap should start during your first VHL season if it stays that way.

[Knight 1,221]

Draft classes are already exceptionally weak in some years. Longer careers means a decline of the quality of draft class. This will undoubtedly lead to more parity issues. 

 

Plus, as a GM it is useful knowing roughly which draft classes to focus on to ensure a legitimate rebuild. Trading for picks when you have no idea what the draft class might look like is extremely risky, and thus it also diminishes the value of picks.

 

It would add an element of unpredictability to the league, but I really think the cyclical nature of the league (in conjunction with the appropriate salary cap) keeps the league constantly changing and exciting. I mean, one team has repeated in the past, what, 20 seasons? I think that kind of parity is necessary.

 

And yes, there is a question of the record books and history etc. People are extremely competitive here and will always strive to break records. S50 is coming up soon. Could explore a change in this manner with a new "era" of the VHL? Keep the old records somewhat intact while giving newer members a chance to break them at the same time.

 

Interesting idea. Would need a lot of work put in to get it done right. 

[CowboyinAmerica 2,711]

1 hour ago, DollarAndADream said:

I also always hated the idea of how the cap is out of draft. You get 8 seasons to play after you're drafted. For a long of people, mostly first-gens, that means one of those seasons is in the VHLM. I always found that dumb. You shouldn't have to waste a season of action in the VHLM. That 8 season cap should start during your first VHL season if it stays that way.

 

Eh. So what's stopping me/everyone at staying at 199 TPE until the day the VHLM season starts, then really maximizing my TPE that final VHLM season and still have 8 VHL seasons? And how do you manage the players who never make it to the VHL, or don't make it there until later in their careers (like a Zeptenbergs, who was created S41 and drafted S42 but wasn't up until S44)?

 

I'm also against removing any sort of cap, but don't have much to add to a discussion so carry on.

Edited May 23, 2016 by CowboyinAmerica

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

2 minutes ago, CowboyinAmerica said:

 

Eh. So what's stopping me/everyone at staying at 199 TPE until the day the VHLM season starts, then really maximizing my TPE that final VHLM season and still have 8 VHL seasons? And how do you manage the players who never make it to the VHL, or don't make it there until later in their careers (like a Zeptenbergs, who was created S41 and drafted S42 but wasn't up until S44)?

 

I'm also against removing any sort of cap, but don't have much to add to a discussion so carry on.

I don't know, man. I'm just saying things.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

What's up with carryover then? 9th season - 6%, 10th - 5%, 11th - 4%, or something?

[scoop 3,258]

2 hours ago, flyersfan1493 said:

No. 8 season limit keeps the VHL fresh with new faces, new teams, and new stars. Don't need Karnage/O'Malley et al to continue their dominance.

That's why we bump up depreciation at a faster rate and put a limit  how much banked tpe can be used after depreciation. The latter idea we could add for 8th season players as well. I'm thinking 100 banked tpe limit for 8th season,  50 for 9th, 25 for 10th and none beyond then.  For depreciation,  something like 11, 15, 20% for seasons 9, 10, and 11. It gives an option to players but  the same time makes them worse.  This way the career trajectory isn't just up up up. If O'Malley or Karnage want to stay in the league, we'll see them get worse. We'll actually see new faces become the best while the older guys are still around rather than them retiring  the top dogs. 

 

As for the issue of this weakening drafts, the two player system will alleviate some of those concerns at least. 

[Victor 10,553]

Yeah my main concern about this before was weakening of draft classes, which the two player system covers.

 

I still don't love the idea but the limit could be increased to 11 or 12 seasons. I still think there should be a limit though and harsh depreciation and carryover as proposed.

 

To those concerned about those protecting the current system:

1. 7 season careers, as mentioned, are not an end yo HOF career. Lindberg, Osborne, Wahl just a few recent examples.

2. We're not protecting our personal records - most of them belong to a now inactive Scotty Campbell. And they'll be hard to reach anyway as Streetlight showed with the O'Malley example.

 

All-time stats may be a bit skewed nonetheless but I'd suggest starting an additional spreadsheet for everyone who retires after the implementation of this + two players. Because I feel second players will change league stats anyway.

[gorlab 4,321]

raise it to 9 imo

[Advantage 2,770]

7 hours ago, Banackock said:

Then get permission first? SHL also posted every single single and makes multiple posts during an off-season on one site. 

 

Leave it to one post in the appropriate area. 

We have done that with Reddit, HF and others before.  We also mass email old leagues and members but as a former mod on HF, the section we are forced to post in gains very little traffic and really they wont allow anywhere else.

[Devise 4,475]

You know I'm really getting sick and tired of the constant "old members trying to protect their status" comments. You should really let that biased and not even remotely accurate opinion die @Banackock. Especially since the reason these ideas receive resistance from older members is because we are keen on protecting the structure of the VHL. By that I mean the difficulty scale. In the VHL it's not super hard to have a good player. But having a great one can be a tough thing and still require some luck. For tons of different reasons that aspect of the VHL has support.

 

Anyway, I'm not completely sold on this idea. That is to say I'm not against it. But only as far as 10 seasons. Increase the depreciation rate, change rookie RFA to 4 seasons, and release in conjunction with two players to minimize draft impact. Could be a neat added feature for those interested. We are going to have to re evaluate how HoF works after two players anyway so doing something like this then ensures it has the least impact on the history stuff.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Sorry if this sounds egoistic, but no thanks.

[Knight 1,221]

13 hours ago, Streetlight said:

As for the issue of this weakening drafts, the two player system will alleviate some of those concerns at least. 

 

Fair point, hadn't thought about that. Do you think this could work without the two-player system?

[Victor 10,553]

29 minutes ago, Knight said:

 

Fair point, hadn't thought about that. Do you think this could work without the two-player system?

That was my main argument against it before....

 

I mean, it would work it'd just be shit.

[scoop 3,258]

3 hours ago, Knight said:

 

Fair point, hadn't thought about that. Do you think this could work without the two-player system?

Eh, probably not. I guess it would depend on how many people  to extend their careers but the prospect of the two player system is why I would reconsider this . 

[Baozi 1,635]

We can't do this due to our limited player pool. The drafts would become even weaker than they are now if we allowed longer lifespans.

 

If we had a larger player pool I wouldn't necessarily be against it.

Edited May 27, 2016 by tfong

[Kendrick 4,724]

RIP VHLSC

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Maybe make it so that your main player has no set amount of seasons but if you do create a second player, they can only last 4-6 unless you retire your main one. As for the recreate issue, make it so you remove the 75 cap you get max carryover and do like the SBA and just make it 5% of your total amount no matter the amount of seasons as long as you play like 4-5 seasons minimum.

[Baozi 1,635]

13 minutes ago, Da Trifecta said:

Maybe make it so that your main player has no set amount of seasons but if you do create a second player, they can only last 4-6 unless you retire your main one. As for the recreate issue, make it so you remove the 75 cap you get max carryover and do like the SBA and just make it 5% of your total amount no matter the amount of seasons as long as you play like 4-5 seasons minimum.

 

We're now making unecessarily work. So many new rules and exceptions.

[scoop 3,258]

14 minutes ago, Da Trifecta said:

As for the recreate issue, make it so you remove the 75 cap you get max carryover and do like the SBA and just make it 5% of your total amount no matter the amount of seasons as long as you play like 4-5 seasons minimum.

What? That would just encourage people to play longer careers. Our goal in removing the limit would be to give the option but make it a less desirable one so people who would otherwise recreate after ~8 seasons will still do so rather than playing a few more.

[scoop 3,258]

33 minutes ago, tfong said:

We can't do this due to our limited player pool. The drafts would become even weaker than they are now if we allowed longer lifespans.

 

If we had a larger player pool I wouldn't necessarily be against it.

Well, I mean we're looking at allowing members to have two players. That's kind of why I decided to bring up this idea again.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

12 minutes ago, Streetlight said:

What? That would just encourage people to play longer careers. Our goal in removing the limit would be to give the option but make it a less desirable one so people who would otherwise recreate after ~8 seasons will still do so rather than playing a few more.

 

Hence why the 2nd player gets limited in their careers. I am quite certain more than a few will make a 2nd player

[Phil 5,019]

No one would want to trade an all-star for first round picks anymore because of weaker drafts with maybe 1-2 good players each draft. It would all be about signing free agents (which I suppose is not a bad thing - but then we are sacrificing trading and drafting for just one thing.)

[scoop 3,258]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

No one would want to trade an all-star for first round picks anymore because of weaker drafts with maybe 1-2 good players each draft. It would all be about signing free agents (which I suppose is not a bad thing - but then we are sacrificing trading and drafting for just one thing.)

Maybe I'm overestimating the effects that the two-player system will have, or underestimating just how many people will actually play much further beyond eight seasons, but I don't really see this being a huge issue.

[Phil 5,019]

1 hour ago, Streetlight said:

Maybe I'm overestimating the effects that the two-player system will have, or underestimating just how many people will actually play much further beyond eight seasons, but I don't really see this being a huge issue.

 

Or I may just be speaking a little out of ignorance, as I haven't really read much of the discussions regarding the two-player idea.