POLL: SBA<->EFL welfare system to VHL

[hedgehog337 3,483]

1 minute ago, boubabi said:

I demand a urine test in riga 

 

I swear we don't use a meldonium.

[boubabi 4,725]

I think you have contacted the russian olympics comity to get their "special recipe"

Edited January 2, 2018 by boubabi

[hedgehog337 3,483]

1 minute ago, boubabi said:

I think you have contacted the russian olympics comity to get their "special recipe"

 

Vice versa. that was a genius plan how to get rid of them from the Olympics. too bad IOC were softies.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

36 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

Also, if you're trying to implement some extra PT's, raise the TPE weekly cap. Cause how many 1000 TPE players we have? 

 

1. G - Apollo Skye.

 

3 more players are not so far from it, but 2/3 of them are goalies as well. that's sad.

 

(I think this whole argument is pointless because I don't think any decision is going to move the needle in either direction. I still haven't seen any proof to my liking that this would actually markedly increase activity, nor do I see anybody leaving because it's instituted. But I did want to note I'd personally attribute the above a whole lot more to Player 2 and people burning out/trying to maintain multiple players than anything having to do with TPE earning. S51-S53 draft classes in particular were the hardest hit, with a lot of second players created and not maintained.)

[JardyB10 4,865]

21 hours ago, Kendrick said:

It's a good idea if we want an influx of members to join

Why would they? They're doing work for another league, just so they can update in this one? What's even the point? How about instead, the other leagues can implement this welfare idea, and those members can join and do their PT here and then they don't have to write one there! We'll get just as many members because it's the exact same idea!

 

I've thrown out the idea of making the VHL into a type of SSN multi-sports league before INCLUDING merging it with one of these other nonsense leagues. Your guys' football league specifically! And it was understandably unanimously shot down, as it draws away the focus from the main league. This idea, as is, is literally exactly that but worse. And it's getting majority YES votes. What happened between these two conversations? This idea is better because doing work in a completely different league and website gives you full PT on our footnote point earning system? On a system called WELFARE, you can earn the exact same amount of points for being in a completely different league?

 

I'm too inactive to be involved in Will's aforementioned BOG talks, but without something being majorly reworked (which maybe has been discussed on these other 6 pages), Boubabi is absolutely right; this idea is complete dogshit horrible. That should be doubly meaningful because I think Boubabi's been a real asshole lately and I hate to agree with him on anything. But I do here.

[boubabi 4,725]

go get'em jardy

Edited January 3, 2018 by boubabi

[Sixersfan594 247]

bring back chat tbh, brought a great community feel and activity.

[JardyB10 4,865]

19 minutes ago, Sixersfan549 said:

bring back chat tbh, brought a great community feel and activity.

It will be brought back as soon as it's feasible. Until then there's a Discord!

[Bushito 1,945]

3 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

It will be brought back as soon as it's feasible. Until then there's a Discord!

Discord is shit. This way of welfare will bring in new members no doubt, like it or not new blood is needed.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Bushito

[hedgehog337 3,483]

5 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

It will be brought back as soon as it's feasible. Until then there's a Discord!

 

Discord is dead though. at least VHL's one.

[Beketov 9,021]

1 hour ago, JardyB10 said:

Why would they? They're doing work for another league, just so they can update in this one? What's even the point? How about instead, the other leagues can implement this welfare idea, and those members can join and do their PT here and then they don't have to write one there! We'll get just as many members because it's the exact same idea!

 

I've thrown out the idea of making the VHL into a type of SSN multi-sports league before INCLUDING merging it with one of these other nonsense leagues. Your guys' football league specifically! And it was understandably unanimously shot down, as it draws away the focus from the main league. This idea, as is, is literally exactly that but worse. And it's getting majority YES votes. What happened between these two conversations? This idea is better because doing work in a completely different league and website gives you full PT on our footnote point earning system? On a system called WELFARE, you can earn the exact same amount of points for being in a completely different league?

 

I'm too inactive to be involved in Will's aforementioned BOG talks, but without something being majorly reworked (which maybe has been discussed on these other 6 pages), Boubabi is absolutely right; this idea is complete dogshit horrible. That should be doubly meaningful because I think Boubabi's been a real asshole lately and I hate to agree with him on anything. But I do here.

If it helps the way I have been proposing it continuously is that it wouldn’t be the same amount of points. People claiming from another league would be capped at the 6 they earn from it (maybe a tad more) while the others get the full 9 or even an increased 12 cap. There’s still benefit to being more active here. I don’t care for the idea of it means people can get the same amount of points without doing anything in the VHL but I’m fine with it if it means that members can be brought in but not trump loyal VHL members.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

3 hours ago, jRuutu said:

No, but I´ll read it tomorrow!

 

But we are fighting for the same users as SHL and other hockey leagues, if SHL is able to offer experience that is closer to the real experience of starting from juniors and going to the big league with deeper and wider rosters,  of course people will slowly move towards SHL? Or if they get what they want there, why would they come over to check this place out? Not saying you need to directly copy SHL or any other league, but if the SHL PT system is actually keeping people in the league - something similar could work here?

There are people who prefer our setup, and there are people who prefer their setup. The people who prefer our setup come here and the people who prefer their setup go there. If we do exactly as they do, then the people who prefer our setup have no league to go to. The people who prefer their setup already have a league, they don't need two clones, and you're taking the option away from the people who prefer our setup.

[Molholt 2,185]

4 hours ago, JardyB10 said:

Why would they? They're doing work for another league, just so they can update in this one? What's even the point? How about instead, the other leagues can implement this welfare idea, and those members can join and do their PT here and then they don't have to write one there! We'll get just as many members because it's the exact same idea!

 

I've thrown out the idea of making the VHL into a type of SSN multi-sports league before INCLUDING merging it with one of these other nonsense leagues. Your guys' football league specifically! And it was understandably unanimously shot down, as it draws away the focus from the main league. This idea, as is, is literally exactly that but worse. And it's getting majority YES votes. What happened between these two conversations? This idea is better because doing work in a completely different league and website gives you full PT on our footnote point earning system? On a system called WELFARE, you can earn the exact same amount of points for being in a completely different league?

 

I'm too inactive to be involved in Will's aforementioned BOG talks, but without something being majorly reworked (which maybe has been discussed on these other 6 pages), Boubabi is absolutely right; this idea is complete dogshit horrible. That should be doubly meaningful because I think Boubabi's been a real asshole lately and I hate to agree with him on anything. But I do here.

 

If you're afraid that your members aren't loyal enough to keep doing PTs here, then you're right I suppose. But what we've seen by actually implementing this feature is that 90% of everything stays the same. I still do SBA PTs. But I also have a player in the EFL now. However, the 10% change is that both sides have probably 8-12 members who are posting in discussions, doing league jobs, creating players, etc., who weren't members before. There is about the same amount going both ways as well.

 

The fact of the matter is, all of these leagues have their core community. I'm never going to be a "core" VHL member because I love basketball and know nothing about hockey. But I do like sim leagues and I do like a lot of the people here, you included, and if this was implemented it would be a way for me to be more active here without having to worry about doing more PTs because frankly I don't have time. Your core community isn't going to change, they aren't going to suddenly start doing EFL or SBA PTs exclusively. But you might (I'd go so far as to nearly assure it) get 8-20 new members that stick with their activity and add some new players and faces to the mix. It's certainly not gonna blow your league up, but it's an influx of people that kinda fill the cracks of these leagues. A lot of people here are right - we tend to recruit from the same circles, so this just helps fill in the space between our sim league Venn diagrams.

 

Also, I assume you meant the leadership here shot down your discussion about essentially forming some type of SSN, but if not, my door and the SBA's is always open and I'd love to talk. Frankly that's the path to really expanding this little niche we all have here. 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

4 hours ago, Molholt said:

 

If you're afraid that your members aren't loyal enough to keep doing PTs here, then you're right I suppose. But what we've seen by actually implementing this feature is that 90% of everything stays the same. I still do SBA PTs. But I also have a player in the EFL now. However, the 10% change is that both sides have probably 8-12 members who are posting in discussions, doing league jobs, creating players, etc., who weren't members before. There is about the same amount going both ways as well.

 

The fact of the matter is, all of these leagues have their core community. I'm never going to be a "core" VHL member because I love basketball and know nothing about hockey. But I do like sim leagues and I do like a lot of the people here, you included, and if this was implemented it would be a way for me to be more active here without having to worry about doing more PTs because frankly I don't have time. Your core community isn't going to change, they aren't going to suddenly start doing EFL or SBA PTs exclusively. But you might (I'd go so far as to nearly assure it) get 8-20 new members that stick with their activity and add some new players and faces to the mix. It's certainly not gonna blow your league up, but it's an influx of people that kinda fill the cracks of these leagues. A lot of people here are right - we tend to recruit from the same circles, so this just helps fill in the space between our sim league Venn diagrams.

 

Also, I assume you meant the leadership here shot down your discussion about essentially forming some type of SSN, but if not, my door and the SBA's is always open and I'd love to talk. Frankly that's the path to really expanding this little niche we all have here. 

McMolholt comes out of nowhere. This man knows a lot and I think he brings in a lot of good points. I personally don't see the doom and gloom if we allow this to happen. Where do I see the doom and gloom is if we don't allow this to happen and the league stays the same. We the VHL have literally everything to gain from this and nothing to lose because to be honest the site has been really sad recently, no posts no discussion no nothing. I think this will breath new life into the VHL and if in a couple of seasons it all fizzles out at least we can say we tried to save the VHL.

[jRuutu 2,464]

8 hours ago, diamond_ace said:

There are people who prefer our setup, and there are people who prefer their setup. The people who prefer our setup come here and the people who prefer their setup go there. If we do exactly as they do, then the people who prefer our setup have no league to go to. The people who prefer their setup already have a league, they don't need two clones, and you're taking the option away from the people who prefer our setup.

Problem is that these leagues are fighting for the same users, what if this setup VHL has just simply does not appeal to most hockey fans or hockey league users? No matter how hard you promote and let people know, but once they come in and see what the place is all about - they don´t stick around?

 

For example, VHL could find users in promoting faster seasons than in SHL. No need to exactly copy everything as someone else does, but the PT system over in SHL is in my opinion a lot better than what this new system would make VHL to be. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,464]

11 hours ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

25 words? Come on, this is an epitome of laziness lol.

 

 

@Devise

 

Yeah, not a lot of members cares about that league. More starting TPE would help new members to join the big league immediately and I think there was a suggestion earlier about that.

 

 

Again on 1 AM? Your regime is incredible.

Well not sure if there is an actual word cap on the PT, but it´s shorter anyways, most write something like 50-100 words and get 1 Tpe for it - mostly for fun and to create discussion on whatever is going on around the league at the moment!

 

I know, was having so much fun here that I forgot to follow the clock, again

[hedgehog337 3,483]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Well not sure if there is an actual word cap on the PT, but it´s shorter anyways, most write something like 50-100 words and get 1 Tpe for it - mostly for fun and to create discussion on whatever is going on around the league at the moment!

 

Well, that's more than 25 words.

 

But right now I want to know what's the PT system SHL has to even make a comparing. Like how many words for 1M, how many TPE for a certain amount of M's e.t.c.

[jRuutu 2,464]

34 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

Well, that's more than 25 words.

 

But right now I want to know what's the PT system SHL has to even make a comparing. Like how many words for 1M, how many TPE for a certain amount of M's e.t.c.

Not sure exactly how much you need to write for 1m, but in the rules it says you get 100k for 100 words. If you put a real effort in on your article, you can get a bonus though.

 

But the actual PT system is better for users who might not have too much time to write 500 words for example.

 

Weekly:

 

PT with a topic that is given by the PT staff - 150 words - 3 points

Activity check - Write your name  - 2 points

Training - same thing - if you got the money (500k for 3 or 1m for 5 points)

Mini PT - league related topics where you write little bit (50ish words is fine)  - 1 point

Predictions - 1 points or 2 if you get it right

 

Might forget something, but overall don´t take too much time and you can build a great player by doing PT´s alone and buying training for 500k/3 tpe each week.

(Should have enough money from contract alone to spend 500k each week during the season, 1m maybe not) Also frees up that much needed time for users to spend around the league in LR´s, game threads and whatever when they don´t have to write 500 words.

 

A lot of the same as here really, PT here is the fan590, but for less TPE,  Activity check in SHL is bit like welfare here, but just for 2 TPE on shl and 3 or 4 here.  Instead of doing training - here you write an article or do graphic stuff for 6 TPE. In SHL you get money for writing an article that you can then use to buy training. Both leagues got prediction related PT´s, in SHL you also got that championship week that happens during the Finals. CW has 4 or 5 written options and 4 or 5 graphic options, you pick 4 and do those 4 to get 12 TPE.  

 

Not saying it´s a perfect system in SHL or anywhere else, but if you ask me - should absolutely go and try to change the actual PT system first before thinking about adding this new idea where you can claim 6 tpe done in some other league in multiple places.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by jRuutu

[hedgehog337 3,483]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Not sure exactly how much you need to write for 1m, but in the rules it says you get 100k for 100 words. If you put a real effort in on your article, you can get a bonus though.

 

I think they had the scale in media section. At least while I was there.

 

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

PT with a topic that is given by the PT staff - 150 words - 3 points

 

5 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

in SHL you also got that championship week that happens during the Finals. CW has 4 or 5 written options and 4 or 5 graphic options, you pick 4 and do those 4 to get 12 TPE.  

 

I already said we need to implement some extra PT's here and not only me.

 

6 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

A lot of the same as here really, PT here is the fan590, but for less TPE,

 

I agree, min 150 words for 1 TPE is trash.

 

7 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Predictions - 1 points or 2 if you get it right

 

VHL Fantasy zone out now.

 

 

But anyway, isn't that PT system as much lazy as our welfare thing? Like you said, you can survive without even writing an articles. And I'm not sure how just writing names in AC's and copy+paste in predicitons is much harder than posting a name in the welfare topic. Not even to mention the 50-word PT, that's basically a one sentence lol.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 hour ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

I think they had the scale in media section. At least while I was there.

 

 

 

I already said we need to implement some extra PT's here and not only me.

 

 

I agree, min 150 words for 1 TPE is trash.

 

 

VHL Fantasy zone out now.

 

 

But anyway, isn't that PT system as much lazy as our welfare thing? Like you said, you can survive without even writing an articles. And I'm not sure how just writing names in AC's and copy+paste in predicitons is much harder than posting a name in the welfare topic. Not even to mention the 50-word PT, that's basically a one sentence lol.

Put you still need to write the 150 word article each week and predictions are predictions, good change you do really badly if you just copy random people all the time.

 

It for sure is not as much work as here with the 500 word article or graphic stuff, can build nice player with less effort put in overall during the week, but if we are comparing system like that and the system in this new idea where you can claim 6 TPE from something you did in another league, should go with the first option or some kind of version of it with more PTs etc 9.9 times out of 10, still have to do something in order to build that nice player. If people come in from other sites with their 6 TPEs from media/graphic - they don´t really do anything here when it comes down to PT´s. Stuff you do on the actual site is what should matter.

Edited January 3, 2018 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,464]

13 hours ago, bgreene21 said:

The ideas I have for creating an enjoyable atmosphere in the league are too far fetched to ever actually see happen. Especially in a league with this history. I love the GOMHL's idea of a TPE cap. I just hate the layout of the site over there. I think this site has a great layout. 

 

I don't like the VHLM. I would much rather see a collegiate or amateur league where your player is expected to have a longer career. If I remember correctly a player is drafted after his first year? I think associating the "VHLM" with something newcomers could relate to like the NCAA or another amateur hockey association would benefit the league. It would make success at that level matter more, unlike it does now. It's easy to lose interest when all you care about is seeing your player succeed, especially in a hockey league.

 

I think longevity should be relative. I'm not completely sure how this would work, but it would surely be easier with a TPE cap. For instance say a player hits his 8th season. Take 10% of his TPE and let him chooses what regresses. If you capped a player at 500 TPE for example, take 50 TPE. But say that player was a league leader in points, goals, assists or hits. Instead of taking 10% take 5 for the top three that qualify for league leaders. Creates a better team building experience for an older free agent. Say in the 9th season of somebodies career we took 12%. For a top 3 leader you could instead take 6 % and allow that player to choose where he regresses. I think this would create a more competitive and exclusive "HOF"

 

I don't know, just ideas. I'd love to hear others. 

I like the GOMHL system as well, simple and at the same time forces people to actually think what kind of players they want to be because at some point you will run out of TPE because you hit the cap.

 

VHLM is decent, coming up and making it to the VHL is exciting in theory, but it would still be better if over in VHL the roster were deeper, bit silly if you come in as a young player and season or two later make the jump to VHL and you are playing on a big role right away. If you stay active, that spot is yours. There is not much to go after on a personal level after you are in VHL, just stats - scored 65 last year, maybe try to get 75 next. No matter what happens, you are playing a lot. No matter if you claim welfare or do everyhing, you will play a lot.

 

Regression here is not tough enough to be honest, or at least it does not feel too bad, because in the end you will still play in a big role and score decent amount. Like you said, would be easier with some kind of TPE cap. Players would once again really have to think where they take the points away from, GOMHL system is solid in that area as well, gives players the freedom to choose.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

3 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Problem is that these leagues are fighting for the same users, what if this setup VHL has just simply does not appeal to most hockey fans or hockey league users? No matter how hard you promote and let people know, but once they come in and see what the place is all about - they don´t stick around?

 

For example, VHL could find users in promoting faster seasons than in SHL. No need to exactly copy everything as someone else does, but the PT system over in SHL is in my opinion a lot better than what this new system would make VHL to be. 

Except we'e not fighting for the same users. Our user base has very little overlap with theirs. To become a clone of them fills a niche in the market that is already filled. Supply and demand, simple economics. The demand for their type of league is satisfied by them as a league. It doesn't need a second.

[Evans 305]

I was super against this idea when the SBA was going to implement it, but it has actually been a great addition for the league that has brought in a lot of new blood. Same thing with EFL. It brought in players that have been important to the league success and filling league related jobs. 

 

This partnership would benefit VHL more than it would EFL/SBA. Not to sound like a dick, but if VHL decides not to do it who cares? No sweat off the back of SBA/EFL. We just keep doing our thing and they keep doing theirs. 

[Tyler 885]

we shouldn't do any partnerships with the EFL until they ban punkhippie it's the #1 reason I haven't bothered to  join it yet

[boubabi 4,725]

partnership

 

jesus christ, whats the point