Hybrid Attributes: Ending the Meta

[Beketov 9,033]

Hybrid Attributes: Ending the Meta

 

Hello @Members!

 

As I’m sure you’re all aware by now, the VHL has a meta problem. If you aren’t aware…. where have you been? I’ll explain though: at its core, the “meta” in the VHL refers to building a player with max Scoring (as well as ideally max Defense) and absolutely no Passing, or as little Passing as you can possibly manage. This tricks the engine into taking an insane amount of shots rather than passing and more shots means more goals. An individual player doing this has minimal impact on the engine as a whole but an entire team doing it is not only salary efficient (since not much TPE is needed), but can also be very beneficial to that team as they outshoot and outscore their opponents rather consistently. As more and more users have started to discover this, more and more teams have come to adopt this “meta” strategy, intentionally or otherwise.

 

The SHL discovered this a few years ago and completely changed engines to eliminate it. Before I get into our fix I want to explain something to eliminate a misconception: we did know about this and we weren’t just ignoring it in hopes that it wouldn’t be a problem. At the time it was discovered, we ran tests and found the impact to be lesser with our engine version and roster composition. It was present but not extreme - combined with re-rolls being much harder to acquire here, we thought it best not to rock the boat believing changes would be more detrimental to league health than the problem which, at that point, had not really come up in the VHL.

 

Unfortunately times changed and as we know, the meta has been on our doorstep for a bit now. That is why the @BOG has been working very hard the last few seasons to come up with a solution that would not only eliminate the meta without changing engines (something that would be nuclear to the portal and unwanted if it can be avoided) but also improve build diversity, roster makeup, and hopefully league enjoyment.

 

Therefore, I present your new VHL Player Attributes:

 

Spoiler

Deking

Stickhandling

Passing

Body Checking

Grit

Faceoffs

Stick Checking

Defensive Coverage

Offensive Vision

Speed

Slap Shot

Wrist Shot

Leadership

Poise

 

"But Beketov..." I hear you asking, "if we aren't changing engines and we can't change the attributes inside of STHS how do we have new attributes?"

 

Good question theoretical member! The short answer is: we don't. The above are the attributes you as members will be seeing but they are not the attributes STHS will be seeing. We are calling these hybrid attributes and their job is to give us more control over builds without directly limiting what can and can't be added to. They work by spreading out the TPE placed into them into different STHS attributes at different ratios. Specifically the ratios that are used are:

 

Spoiler

Attribute	STHS Att. 1	Ratio	STHS Att. 2	Ratio
Deking	PH	0.24	DF	0.12
Stickhandling	PH	0.36	SK	0.12
Passing	PA	0.36		0
Body checking	DF	0.06	CK	0.36
Grit	CK	0.24	FG	0.3
Faceoffs	FO	0.54	ST	0.24
Stick Checking	DF	0.24	ST	0.18
Defensive Coverage	DF	0.18	SK	0.18
Offensive Vision	PA	0.3	SC	0.3
Speed	SK	0.3		0
Slap Shot	SC	0.12	ST	0.3
Wrist Shot	SC	0.12	PS	0.48
Leadership	LD	0.72		0
Poise	LD	0.3	DI	0.54

 

I know that looks like a lot of numbers and attributes but I promise it's not as complicated as it seems at first glance.

 

Essentially 1 point into a Hybrid attribute = a ratio of 1 or more STHS attributes. For example adding 1 point to Offensive Vision will add 0.3 points to PA and 0.3 points to SC (this sounds quite low but I promise it works out). To make it so that this doesn't completely break how much TPE is needed for a build all values will be rounded down (since STHS cannot accept decimals) but the points aren't lost, they simply aren't used until you hit a new whole number. I also want to assure you that these values were not randomly determined - they were the byproduct of many test sims to ensure they would mitigate all of the issues we were aiming to address.

 

These values can be more easily tweaked over time if a new meta develops and give us granular control over the STHS attributes in a way that simply having an update scale never has and never could. In the specific case of the meta, the eagle eyed among you have probably already noticed that there’s no way to achieve max scoring without adding to passing. In fact if you max all the scoring attributes you will end up around 64 passing by association. This was the crux of the meta fix, build attributes together in a way that making a purely “meta” player is impossible.

 

The additional bonus of course is build diversity, or at least that's the hope. I'm hitting this explanation over the head a bit and I promise I'll stop soon but I wanted to touch on this very quickly because I can see the comments now from that theoretical member again, "couldn't we have achieved the same thing by adding archetypes or simply a required gap between passing and scoring?" Yes, theoretical member, we could have. However we chose to take longer to make this than go one of those routes because the VHL's attributes have always been based around adding what you want, where you want. We do not have limits on specific attributes or requirements like gap; it would be easier but that doesn't inherently make it better. @Beaviss originally came up with an early version of this a few years back (so credit to him) and I shot it down because I didn't think it made sense at the time. However when looking at all of this again it seemed to fit perfectly. Fix the meta and add a whole new world of build theorycrafting. We don't have any new actual attributes but having different ways to get things up and having to balance certain trade offs inherently creates more opportunity to diversify. You can try this out for yourselves since @Spartan ohas graciously simplified our testing spreadsheet here (originally designed by @Enorama, credit where due because I certainly couldn't do all that math) which you can use to start designing your build right now before this all comes into play.

 

--- 

 

Which leads me out of the meat of this announcement and into the nitty gritty details: Implementation and what it all means.

 

First off, this is going into effect for the start of S83 which will likely mean extending the off-season slightly because we need to accommodate the fact that every skater in the league will be re-rolled down to TPA + banked after depreciation is run, which will happen early. This is done so that you can re-apply your TPE into the new attributes as you please. You can choose to change your build if you'd like or you can try and build exactly the same, the choice is ultimately yours. Inactive players will be re-rolled by their GM's and any players not re-rolled by the start of the season will be retired.

 

We recognize this is a large change though and builds may not be perfectly finalized even with the extra tools and preparation time. For that reason we will be offering a 3 season window (ending at the start of S86) in which you will be able to re-roll your player again for free. Everyone will be able to do this once regardless of if they have previously used the paid re-roll or not.

 

We do also recognize that this is a WC off-season as well as the other usual off season tournaments and those will not be affected. We will download a ratings file for them the last day before everyone is reset and run the tournaments off of that file. You may have noticed by now that none of those attributes above and nothing I have said thus far relates to goalies; that is because goalies shall remain untouched for now. They will not be re-rolled or affected in any way at this time. If changes to their attributes need to be made in the future we shall do so but for now we want to gather data without adjusting them.

 

The update scale and depreciation will also remain unchanged, again at least for now. From our testing depreciation should be roughly the same difficulty to fight as before for the higher TPE players and should be slightly easier for the lower TPE players. Additionally the update scale does not appear to require changing and will operate in exactly the same way as before with 1 caveat: attributes will start at 0 and go to 99 instead of the 40-99 that the VHL has ran with for 82 seasons. This only applies to the hybrid attributes with the ones inside STHS still having a baseline of 40. The update scale for 0-70 will remain at 1 TPE per point. The process of updating will also remain unchanged however it will look slightly different. We will be upgrading the update page to showcase not only which points go into your hybrid attributes but also the effect of your STHS attributes. It is worth noting, however, that there will be disheartening moments in this system on occasion. Because of how the ratios work and the rounding down there will be times where you add a point and see nothing change. Again I would like to clarify that every point added does get counted, it may just not be enough to push you over the rounding threshold. The TPE tool shall also be adjusted accordingly to help people figure out their builds and see exactly what adding to everything does. It will work the same as the above link but be a lot less manual.

 

I recognize this is a long explanation, a lot of words, and a lot to take in. It is not a decision we made lightly but it is a decision we are excited about. It should hopefully fix a lot of player attribute problems we have been facing in one move and allow the league to grow without destroying everything we have built with STHS. This will allow our attributes to be closer to the expectation of the engine without suppressing the creativity to do as you please, it will put an end to the meta build, it will make for an increase in build diversity, and it will allow the VHL to continue to thrive. Please know that we will be keeping an eye on things over the next few seasons as, regardless of the amount of testing we did, ultimately the biggest test is getting it in all of your hands. If we need to adjust sliders or change goalies or anything else we will do so. We ask that you all embrace this change and help to make the league better.

 

If you have any further questions, points of clarification, or concerns, please reach out to a Commissioner or a BoG member. We'd be happy to explain details to prevent incorrect information from circulating.

 

- @Commissioner

[Beketov 9,033]

Was aiming to hit enough words that I could joke about claiming this for 4 weeks but wound up 200 words shy, should have added a TLDR I guess. Either way thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[NSG 498]

[Kendrick 4,741]

Hey as someone who is usually not okay with changes, I like that you guys/girls were brainstorming and running tests. Excited to see what this means going forward for each player!

[samx 1,173]

I don't wanna read all that

[InstantRockstar 1,243]

It's great to see the commishes and the BOD making a big push to eliminate something that has been a huge discussion point for a lot of people. I've been virtually neutral on the discussion, not really adding much insight for either side of the argument to keep or eliminate the meta, but this looks like a very unique and cool way to handle it. 

 

Kudos to everyone involved in the decision

[Beketov 9,033]

Just now, samx said:

I don't wanna read all that

Hey, you complained that it would be boring to look at and needed colours, there are colours! What more could you want?

[samx 1,173]

Just now, Beketov said:

Hey, you complained that it would be boring to look at and needed colours, there are colours! What more could you want?

I suppose I can't complain. I also already kinda knew what was happening tbf so I don't need to read most of it xD

[N0HBDY 1,119]

24 minutes ago, Beketov said:

goalies shall remain untouched for now

[NSG 498]

Ok, so earlier this year, I bought a Jaromir Jagr for scoring. Thankfully it hasn't been approved yet, but do I need to buy the Jagr again for one of these newfangled attrubutes?

[Alex 3,209]

1 minute ago, NSG said:

Ok, so earlier this year, I bought a Jaromir Jagr for scoring. Thankfully it hasn't been approved yet, but do I need to buy the Jagr again for one of these newfangled attrubutes?

Since regression takes place first I would assume that you don't need to. Just the entire TPE amount will be preserved.

[Vkobe-v 169]

32 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Grit

Wooo

[Dom 1,445]

I love that! It will take some time for everyone to get used to it but it will be so much more fun and add the ability for the league to adjust everything if a new game breaking meta is found. Thats an impressive work and I look forward to see how it turns out.

[Enorama 2,038]

35 minutes ago, Beketov said:

@Beaviss originally came up with an early version of this a few years back (so credit to him)

 

Original sheet is now over three years old:

 

[leandrofg 1,162]

45 minutes ago, Beketov said:

As I’m sure you’re all aware by now, the VHL has a meta problem. If you aren’t aware…. where have you been? I’ll explain though: at its core, the “meta” in the VHL refers to building a player with max Scoring (as well as ideally max Defense) and absolutely no Passing, or as little Passing as you can possibly manage.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by leandrofg

[solas 1,951]

Really fascinating idea, I wouldn't have thought of this as a possibility. Very curious to see how build variety is going to look after this is implemented.

[Tate 450]

Brilliant move and I genuinely cannot wait to see how it plays out. LOVE. IT.

 

[Da_Berr 219]

Nice excited to see people not run the same builds now, at least until some nerd uses math to find out how to get the optimal builds 

[Spartan 4,410]

4 minutes ago, Da_Berr said:

at least until some nerd uses math to find out how to get the optimal builds

Good thing we've capped some attributes below 99 and/or made the cost to max the optimal attributes extremely high  

[mattyIceman 1,214]

Its gonna be a weird looking player management page on the portal...

[Beketov 9,033]

2 minutes ago, MattyFired said:

Its gonna be a weird looking player management page on the portal...

@Enorama had a good idea for the look of it on desktop but on mobile it might be tricky

[der meister 3,197]

I'm in a concert hall waiting for an orchestra to start and they're all practicing randomly and loudly so apologies if I already forgot something I read (and I did read the whole thing). I'm curious about the ratio numbers. Am I correct in reading that if I add a point into passing, I get 0.36, but if I add a point into offensive vision, I get 0.3 passing AND 0.3 scoring? There's a significant difference between 0.6 and 0.36, so I'm wondering what I'm missing here.

 

Also interesting that stick checking is a more efficient bump to defense than defensive coverage. Not a complaint, but an interesting decision that I wouldn't have expected.

[Spartan 4,410]

1 minute ago, der meister said:

Am I correct in reading that if I add a point into passing, I get 0.36, but if I add a point into offensive vision, I get 0.3 passing AND 0.3 scoring? There's a significant difference between 0.6 and 0.36, so I'm wondering what I'm missing here.

Offensive vision has a lower ratio into its stats because it is increasing two stats at the same time, especially a critical stat such as SC. This is actually the core stat that prevents people from getting 40/99 PA/SC, since you are forced into increasing PA with SC if you want to try to max SC as much as possible.

 

2 minutes ago, der meister said:

Also interesting that stick checking is a more efficient bump to defense than defensive coverage. Not a complaint, but an interesting decision that I wouldn't have expected.

Similar deal here, defensive coverage increases both DF and SK, which are two more desirable attributes than DF and ST. Therefore the ratios are slightly lower in defensive coverage since we expect more people to want to increase SK and DF at the same time instead of pumping TPE into DF and ST and leaving SK alone.

[Hogan 1,423]

Im not reading this does it mention me getting unbanned 

[DreMin15 220]

I love this idea. It’ll add more diversity to play styles! Well done everyone who worked on this!