Game of Thrones

[solas 1,951]

15 hours ago, BOOM said:

Who the hell is the "New Prince of Dorn"? 

 

They could have given him a name. 

 

As for the bolts from Eurons ship. They are better than hellfire or sidewinder missiles. Fuck me. I kept thinking that Dany could flank the fleet, but I was probably wrong. 

They killed of all of the Martells that they introduced in the show and they didn't really introduce any other Dornish houses or characters like  the books.  So I assume they're just having Dorne be a place occasionally mentioned in the background since they don't have many episodes left.  Still, at least a name would've been nice lol

[Josh 1,671]

3 hours ago, Tyler said:

 

Yea exactly lol. They didn't do it because they couldn't follow through on their plot. I just wonder how people can watch the early seasons where everything made sense and still think of this in par with that. It's fan fiction.

 

I guess we can't expect much from the guys who brought us X Men Origins, but I still expected a bit more consistency and following of their own established logic.

 

Everyone I've talked thinks the same... that last episode made next to no sense. Just complete lapses in logic across the board.

[BOOM 8,759]

I also think that why didn't they just shoot Danys dragon first, if the accuracy of the ship ballista was that good and they had the element of surprise? 

 

Anyway, if we are expecting logical plot lines from a show with dragons, zombie ice armies, reanimation etc, do we really need to analyse every aspect of loose plot lines? 

 

Sometimes a show is just for entertainment and not dissection. 

[Devise 4,475]

9 minutes ago, BOOM said:

I also think that why didn't they just shoot Danys dragon first, if the accuracy of the ship ballista was that good and they had the element of surprise? 

 

Anyway, if we are expecting logical plot lines from a show with dragons, zombie ice armies, reanimation etc, do we really need to analyse every aspect of loose plot lines? 

 

Sometimes a show is just for entertainment and not dissection. 

 

Yeah that is where I am at with it. While I do think there is a crowd of the audience that still try to compare and think it's as high quality as it once was. I also think there is still some strong elements, flashes of greatness in some scenes and while it is wholly fan fiction....at the end of the day it's not "bad" fan fiction most of the time. For me I just kind of I don't know, saw it coming? It was already heading this direction seasons ago. Even if you were on team fantasy and thought the Night King would be some big bad, the show in general was still pushing towards more of a character drama focused on the obvious characters. It has certainly become contrived in some instances, throway lines from the creators about Dany "forgetting about the Iron Fleet." While hilarious at surface level are also telling about I think where the focus was for not only this season but in general? Like I said before it feels like we aren't meant to be cheering for these characters, and that we've been doing so in spite of ourselves. 

 

One of the things that I will say bugs me about the criticism of the direction of the show, is that it's somehow unearned. Which I think is just...crazy? Even if some of it is poorly written, the push of the plot still does take natural threads so often. Like expecting us to believe Dany is so rage hearted and dumb that she'd forget about a fleet that ambushed her and ignore tactics (something she has done a lot throughout the shows history I might add) while believable is just a bummer for the audience because it's not particularly interesting. It's also very obvious/easy. But it's hardly not something new to the show/books. Ned made foolish choices, so did Rob, so did a lot of the previous seasons "hero" characters. 

 

I think no matter what the show will be at odds with the books and I think it always was even when they were taking stuff from the pages/more literally adapting. While the fan fiction aspects of the show can probably feel ham fisted for people who are maybe looking for more nuance, or not just "oh this has to happen because we've been building to it for seasons here and so on". Like I respect that and I do think there are examples where the show has been that. But as a modern day TV show, I just don't know how anyone didn't really think you'd see especially in the final season, fan service wrap up. I've heard many people say that it'd be interesting to see the series remade years down the road, perhaps with all the books completed but instead as movies. The TV format and the character drama aspects that the show has heavily used since day one at times have been at odds with the pacing of the show/universe. That was happening long before we had the jarring time jumps for convenience/effect. 

[BOOM 8,759]

Mr 3 paragraph is back! I like it. 

[Banackock 8,062]

Damn. 

 

All I’m gonna say...  great show etc.. but they 110% fucked up rushing it. This easily could have pushed into a 9th without dragging out anything. Imo, too rushed but still good.

 

Always knew we’d be disappointed and saddened by the end. Even by deaths we’ve wanted for 8 seasons  

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

CLEGANE BOWL HYPE

 

@Victor @JardyB10

[Beaviss 4,957]

Most recent Episode is amazing and it doesn't feel rushed. This season feels a bit rushed but all the people complaining about it wouldn't be happy no matter what they did. They were given a shorter timeline than the writers wanted and are doing the best they can with it. I'm very happy with it and this most recent episode did a service to all the characters. The characters that died ended in the ways they should have and it was visually amazing.

 

Last nights episode 8.5/10

[Victor 10,951]

13 hours ago, flyersfan1453 said:

CLEGANE BOWL HYPE

 

@Victor @JardyB10

It didn't live up to the S51 Continental Cup finals I can tell you that much.

[Devise 4,475]

22 minutes ago, Victor said:

It didn't live up to the S51 Continental Cup finals I can tell you that much.

 

Honestly there was no way it was going to live up to the hype. It had a fitting setting, got a laugh out of me and ended in poetic fashion, but the actual fight itself was underwhelming as hell.

[Victor 10,951]

21 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

Honestly there was no way it was going to live up to the hype. It had a fitting setting, got a laugh out of me and ended in poetic fashion, but the actual fight itself was underwhelming as hell.

It wasn't one of the low points of the episode I'll tell you that much, but that really says it all.

 

I should say one other thing I think was in line with what GoT has been building up to is how Cersei and Jaime went. Main characters are gonna die from rubble when there's so much destruction going on *cough*Arya*cough*, I'm actually fine with that. Less fine with Jaime's entire character arc being butchered but throw that in with the rest of the episode, I'm not even going to waste my time on it.

[Devise 4,475]

31 minutes ago, Victor said:

It wasn't one of the low points of the episode I'll tell you that much, but that really says it all.

 

I should say one other thing I think was in line with what GoT has been building up to is how Cersei and Jaime went. Main characters are gonna die from rubble when there's so much destruction going on *cough*Arya*cough*, I'm actually fine with that. Less fine with Jaime's entire character arc being butchered but throw that in with the rest of the episode, I'm not even going to waste my time on it.

 

Haha yeah fair. Honestly I feel like I'm all the way back in Season 1 with Ned again the way people are reacting to the episode. For me, I don't care because long ago I realized that as pure character drama TV show, this was using the lore to spend time building up characters and investing on them only to have them to regress back to baser truths and die, often causing them to die, and/or their plot points to be rendered irrelevant.

 

I remember being baffled at the time that the show would waste episodes of investment not just on Ned but the purpose of him uncovering Lannister secrets. We are on Season 8 now, and none of Neds life had any purpose and in fact the thing he died for has long since becoming a laughing stock of Westeros rended irrelevant information. I knew then, this show tricks you into investing into characters. It's a trap. That is the show. Maybe there will be an overarching point at the end, that is kind of up in the air at this point. But who knows at this point maybe the overarching point is that everyone in medi-evil style times sucks because that time is filled with horrible flawed stupid people who we shouldn't be betting on or cheering for? Like for me a big reason I've been enjoying the show is because I stopped caring about the character arcs a long time ago. I knew they were tricks, get invested in one too much and the show will end it just for laughs. Ned is hardly the only one it happened to. Forget just dead characters too, whole plotlines/motivations will just poof out of existence. The fact that the characters in the show are willingly acknowledging that stuff too shows me how obvious the writers want it to be. Like Thrones has become a caricature of itself in so many ways, subverting expectations because it knows it can/it illicits that same response that Ned got out of me in Season 1. But the over/under on 90% of what happened for every Season of Thrones being meaningless is very high, and has been well before this season imo. If you didn't see that you were attached to a character and still being tricked by a hope that they structurally, it was trying to be satisfying when this show has never been that ever. 

[Victor 10,951]

19 minutes ago, Devise said:

Ned is hardly the only one it happened to.

Ned didn't have a character arc which was ruined? Shocking death does not need to negate what they've done before. Ned's character arc was he was naive and too honourable and that's how he went. Pretty satisfying to me.

 

Jaime clearly showing he was not just a male Cersei over 8 seasons to then come back for reasons and die with her is butchering a character arc for shock value.

 

21 minutes ago, Devise said:

The fact that the characters in the show are willingly acknowledging that stuff too shows me how obvious the writers want it to be.

The only obvious thing the writers have done is give up on trying.

[Devise 4,475]

31 minutes ago, Victor said:

Ned didn't have a character arc which was ruined? Shocking death does not need to negate what they've done before. Ned's character arc was he was naive and too honourable and that's how he went. Pretty satisfying to me.

 

Ned was trying to play politics with the Lannisters, and outsmart them. Which is what ultimately got him killed. As you said his honor (his base character truth) ultimately got him killed. But when I talk about character arcs I also mean just screen time. In the books Ned wasn't a POV character yet Season 1 of the show decided to make him the focal point, to amplify his death most likely. But I'm speaking way more about just shocking deaths. I'm speaking about the time an audience would invest in a character or their actions only for the show to not only throw them, but the circumstances they were working for and things they were seeking to do away and making it rather irrelevant. 

 

This continued for seasons too, Stannis, Rob, when Oberyon was introduced before his death more and more camera and scene time was on him. Ramsay, I could keep listing. How many characters showed up and eked out camera time for what in the grand scheme, winds up being a meaningless thing? Even the characters they imparted wisdom too are dead in some cases. 

 

As for his plot line, Ned died basically to help protect the Lannister incest secret regarding Joffree. The only lasting impact this has had on the show to this point would be Cersei obtaining the throne? That incest subplot became irrelevant almost as most of Westeros learned of the lineage in secret and the Lannisters were long since ruling by fear and people didn't seem to care. I'm not saying that makes Ned's arc bad, or them treating the actions surrounding his death of little consequence, not a fine choice to make. I'm saying they have consistently made that choice again and again. Ned, Rob, Stannis, Oberyon, Littlefinger, Varys, the list goes on. It's not just about shocking character deaths here it's that they all seemed to be building towards other purposes or working on doing something, and then were shut down...with little to no consequence paid after the fact. The idea that any character at this point could get wrapped up in that to me isn't really shocking anymore. 

 

As for Jamie, his entire resurrection arc culminated when Brienne was bearing her soul to him and he called himself a hateful man. If anything wouldn't the real honorable knight that he is realize he's the villain too? The scene in the episode last night where he is jokingly sarcastic about Cersei winning before Tyrion lets him go, it was clear then he knew Cersei was dead imo. If anything his arc is kind of more fitting because he realizes that he's too much of a villain to deserve the happy ending with Brienne, and that his fate was to be sealed with Cersei's. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Devise

[Victor 10,951]

52 minutes ago, Devise said:

In the books Ned wasn't a POV character

Yes he was.

 

Anyway you don't understand what I'm saying and are trying to justify bad decisions in Season 8 by bad writing earlier in Season 8. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Devise 4,475]

16 minutes ago, Victor said:

Yes he was.

 

Anyway you don't understand what I'm saying and are trying to justify bad decisions in Season 8 by bad writing earlier in Season 8. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

Sorry for some reason I thought he wasn't a POV character in that first book and it was just Bran. Anyways, i'm not justifying bad decisions I've been just as critical of the writing/pacing as anyone. That doesn't mean I still can't like it in spite of those things. I agree with/am fine with the directions the characters took even if in some cases I was underwhelmed by the ways they got there, or other aspects of both the show and this season in particular.

 

I more mean you see a large contingent of people implying the problems it makes visa pacing or even just tone/structure is specific to this season. Which I think is a lie. The idea that a character arc would get destroyed and ultimately lead nowhere is something that this show has intentionally done for a while now. The fact that it happened with a character or characters some people follow, even after seasons...doesn't make it like a bad decision on it's own...or something new the show is doing. Again though the writing and pacing to a lot of the decisions even if I agree with some of the decisions particularly Dany/Jamie has certainly been lacking this season especially. 

 

But Jamie choosing to die with Cersei is hardly a decision that is out of character for him, imo. Same with Dany choosing to go full evil. For me it's less what they did and how they got there. 

 

 

 

 

[BOOM 8,759]

They must have had different guys manning the scorpions this week.... 

[Phil 5,119]

1 hour ago, BOOM said:

They must have had different guys manning the scorpions this week.... 

 

The auto-reloaders were in the shop...

[Beketov 9,033]

I’m sorta in the middle between @Victor and @Devise after watching that. It’s true that the more screentime someone gets in GoT is usually an indicator that they are soon to die. It’s also true that the writers intentionally get us invested for a bigger payoff in the end. However I do have to question if these are the payoffs that were intended in the original text. Dany and Jaime specifically throwing away their entire arc’s for no reason feels wrong to me. It feels like it’s played up for the shock value rather than what naturally makes sense. It worked, don’t get me wrong, I was shocked but I was also annoyed. I wasn’t annoyed that they went mad queen or that Jaime went back to Cersei. I was annoyed because of the pacing of it. I was annoyed because they had 6 seasons of those two characters making real progress and improving both themselves and the world just to throw it away in the course of 1.5-2 seasons. It’s fine wanting to show their downfalls but don’t just spring it up out of nowhere because that makes no sense and just feels rushed because HBO wants to move onto other things.

 

Leaving Dany and Jaime aside for a moment, though they did piss me off the most, so much of that just felt anti-climactic. He prophecy about Cersei being killed by her brother? Pointless, a building fell on her head. Cleganebowl? Lacklustre because 1 is a crazy zombie that doesn’t feel pain. Badass murder child Arya? Running away instead because... reasons? So many choices felt like they were made not because they were good choices but because there’s only 1 episode after this and things needed to be wrapped up.

[Phil 5,119]

32 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Dany and Jaime specifically throwing away their entire arc’s for no reason feels wrong to me

 

Where do you think Dany's arc was thrown away? Because she went full Targaryen on King's Landing? That was totally expected and within her story arc. For seasons she's been aching to just charge into battle and tear shit up, and there's always been someone there to talk her down. The only other time she did something like this (Season 6 I believe where she flew across the sea to burn Jamie/Bron's army to cinders) .. she  went against all her advisers. There's always be the reckless rage to her character and its been building for seasons. She masks her drive to sit on the throne as to be "a merciful" ruler but she's been slipping the closer she gets to the throne and the more of her children and subjects she's lost.

 

Definitely agree with Jamie's arc though. But the most annoying part was Euron swimming miles back on shore and pops out exactly as Jamie passed..lol

[Tyler 885]

I think the whole "descent into madness" thing would make a lot more sense if they had fleshed it out over longer then two episodes lol. I like the end result but I think them getting there was so poorly done it's hard to care.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

I honestly wonder how different the show will feel during a true re-watch without tons of time between each season. I'm in no way excusing this season, as I think it's been overall pretty bad, but I think some things will be more clear as far as foreshadowing and the like when the early to mid seasons are more fresh in your mind.

[Phil 5,119]

28 minutes ago, Tyler said:

I think the whole "descent into madness" thing would make a lot more sense if they had fleshed it out over longer then two episodes lol. I like the end result but I think them getting there was so poorly done it's hard to care.

 

It was over seasons, not two episodes! Having re-watched the entire series before this final season, I can say it was definitely over a few seasons. The itch was always there. They just blunted laid it down on the line over the last two. 

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

20 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It was over seasons, not two episodes! Having re-watched the entire series before this final season, I can say it was definitely over a few seasons. The itch was always there. They just blunted laid it down on the line over the last two. 

 

the itch to go burn Cersei at the Red Keep sure

 

But at the end she was just burning everything for no reason with 0 military targets involved. To go from caring about saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of slaves that delays her trip to Westoros to doing that needs a lot more buildup than what GoT gave us. 10 episodes would have been much better for showing her descent into madness

[Tyler 885]

26 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It was over seasons, not two episodes! Having re-watched the entire series before this final season, I can say it was definitely over a few seasons. The itch was always there. They just blunted laid it down on the line over the last two. 

 

Nah she literally went from "we need to fight the dead to save the realm" to "we need to burn an entire city alive" in two episodes. Remember she was destroyed by the idea that her dragons would kill innocent people in I think S6. It's awful writing because they want to get it over with.