Add a Politics Channel to VHL Discord

[Spartan 4,530]

I don't think it's unfamiliar to many that the VHL general server has a "no politics" rule that was instituted due to past discussions where political stances and people's feelings clashed, leading to hurt feelings and general chaos. However, I think it's also somewhat apparent that there is a general subsection of the VHL population that does enjoy participating in political/politically-related discussion, and can maintain a level of civility and courtesy, without taking political into personal. 

 

Therefore, I'd like to suggest adding a politics channel to the VHL general server with some clauses in effect. Similarly to the #finance-and-stonks channel, I'd advise for the politics channel to be by invite only, therefore somewhat gatekeeping the people who can participate in said discussion. Sure, this excludes people, but primarily along the same standards as the finance channel, where only folks who participate in serious, civil discussion are allowed in. Folks who break that standard are removed, and the general population is not allowed in without a personal request. The finance channel sets a precedent for this type of channel to exist, so I'd hope that the mods are more willing and able to assign that permission based on the user's history in the server, barring folks who are unable to participate in political discussions without making it personal. 

 

I don't know what pushback I'll get from this, but I suppose a few counter-arguments to this will be:

 

Q: "Why not just use the thunderdome?"

A: Well, I'd assume that the majority of people in the server keep the thunderdome muted because it's not a place anyone expects to have a serious discussion in. It's for muted folks, spammers and counters, activity that most of the population doesn't want to see. 

 

Q: "Too much work, why should we even bother?" (from staff)

A: I think that it's quite clear that it's a topic that people like discussing, but there aren't really any great platforms on discord for the VHL population to partake in it. Creating a whole new server would be significantly more work, and it's relatively easier to have a discord channel than starting a mega-thread in the general discussions section of the forum. With the kind of "demand" that exists in the league and mods being paid more for their job, as well as the standards already set by the finance channel, it doesn't seem like a massive step in a different direction, to me at least . 

 

Feel free to ask more questions, argue against it, or whatever. Just my two cents about something I'd like to see

[Vkobe-v 169]

Hi Spartan 

[Quik 4,113]

We have blow ups over job applications, and you think people here can handle actual political discussion?

[Viper 530]

In the not too distant future...

 

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE VHL IS IN SHAMBLES! A CIVIL WAR HAS BROKEN OUT BETWEEN THE LEAGUE!

 

WE HAVE THE REPUBLICANS VS. THE DEMOCRATS! OH, WE HAVE SPOTTED A WILD INDEPENDENT!!

 

Look at this little bastard... he's... he's DEBATING BOTH SIDES! OH GOD! OH HERE COME A WILD RAIDER GROUP OF DEMOCRATS! OH SHIT THEY ARE KICKING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM! OH MY GOD! THE REPUBLICANS HAVE SPOTTED BOTH AND ARE NOW FIGHTING! OH SHIT, JIM GET OUT OF HERE! YOU CAN'T DIE ON TV-

[fishy 1,757]

P. a. i. n.

[Prout 373]

2 minutes ago, Quik said:

We have blow ups over job applications, and you think people here can handle actual political discussion?

Can’t believe I’m about to say i agree with the Leafs fan here..

[Spartan 4,530]

2 minutes ago, Quik said:

We have blow ups over job applications, and you think people here can handle actual political discussion?

I've seen it being handled, therefore I have some faith. 

[dlamb 1,328]

More gatekeeping is not the way. I don't disagree, though. 

[Spartan 4,530]

Just now, dlamb said:

More gatekeeping is not the way. I don't disagree, though. 

Perhaps gatekeeping was a poor suggestion - I'm fine with anyone being part of it as long as they can maintain civility in it. Folks who are known to explicitly troll or don't have anything serious to say shouldn't be part of it, just like the finance channel. Similar standards to entry  

[Gustav 6,469]

I actually have a lot to say about this, and I'm not even someone who was heavily involved with political talk when it was allowed.

 

I recognize that trying to talk about politics with people will lead to disagreement and such. When political stuff was an allowed subject, I saw a lot that I disagreed with, and I'm sure that when I did choose to contribute, there were people who disagreed with me on things as well. But that's okay--I don't expect anyone's views to 100% match mine and I like to think most people can be realistic the other way as well. And that's how it was for the most part. Mods generally stepped in when things escalated, but that happened much less often than someone newer might think. 

 

After one particularly heated argument (the details of which I don't quite remember), someone asked if we could ban all political discussion. It was brought up in BoG and we didn't do that at the time; we moved it to a separate channel. Then things got nasty in there once, fired up in large part by someone who's not even part of the league anymore, the channel was deleted, and we moved to the current "mentioning literally anything slightly political will get you muted" structure...without any discussion (unless there was something in some mod chat or in blue forum I don't know about). 

 

That's what I disagree with, the fact that it was more or less decided that we have to ban an entire topic of conversation because of this one time...like a year ago...when a couple people couldn't behave. I don't even care about political talk myself. I supported the idea of moving it to a separate channel--people should have the ability to enjoy the league and our Discord server without getting involved in that. But the notion that nobody can talk about it, ever, anywhere, is just weird to me. Stuff like trolling, spamming, and poking at other members to try to get some sort of reaction is often tolerated in genchat, but comment on a current event and you've committed a crime against humanity? Please.

 

TL;DR: yes, add a channel.

Edited May 13, 2021 by GustavMattias

[Hank 67]

You should let me in. I am so good at discussing things in a civil manner.

[TheCHEESE 37]

22 minutes ago, Hank said:

You should let me in. I am so good at discussing things in a "civil" manner.

fify 

[Rayzor_7 741]

52 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

After one particularly heated argument (the details of which I don't quite remember), someone asked if we could ban all political discussion

I can tell you who and what, can't tell you what the argument was about though

[v.2 1,411]

Yeah this wouldn’t go over well at all lol. Rather see an NHL discussion channel.

[Spartan 4,530]

1 minute ago, v.2 said:

Yeah this wouldn’t go over well at all lol. Rather see an NHL discussion channel.

The first part is why I asked for it to be limited to all, then people have to request to be in it. Prevents a massive crowd of folks just unloading on each other, especially folks who would just hop in once a month or after some major political event to pitch in vocally. Small groups can establish civility and etiquette, then you slowly expand. 

 

Gen chat should be a NHL discussion channel but some people apparently don't like it lol.

[Hank 67]

34 minutes ago, Spartan said:

The first part is why I asked for it to be limited to all, then people have to request to be in it. Prevents a massive crowd of folks just unloading on each other, especially folks who would just hop in once a month or after some major political event to pitch in vocally. Small groups can establish civility and etiquette, then you slowly expand. 

 

Gen chat should be a NHL discussion channel but some people apparently don't like it lol.

I don't know anything about NHL except the teams and like 2 players.

[Steve 1,949]

There are a lot of political based forums if you search for them. It doesn't take a lot to trigger some people and I think just going to a site that deals with that topic is better than convoluting a hockey sim. Next would be a religion channel and so on. 

[bigAL 2,176]

I love political discourse, follow current events very closely, am very well educated, and can handle and manage conflict that I’m involved or not in. I know I won’t be joining that channel. You all are my friends and I don’t need to know which of you have *insert adjective here* views on the world. I don’t really want to know who here isn’t sold on the whole “climate change” thing. I’m not interested in hearing who thought that the Palestinians had it coming to them. I don’t want to hear from the “Pinochet did nothing wrong” crowd. I’m all for civil disagreement but that doesn’t exist anymore in our extremist world. 
 

Politics (and not the red vs blue tribalism bullshit that this channel would focus on) is a worldview, a life philosophy, and tied very closely to ones identity. Political discourse becomes extremely dicey when we’re all anonymous profile pics behind a computer. We don’t know people or their story, we are all operating on a different set of fundamental truths based on where we live and how we grew up. We are literally worlds apart from each other, and political discourse like that boils down to judging each other based on different standards that aren’t shared with each other. It’s important to learn about the world by experiencing the world, but...

 

Politics is inherently (and in 2021 more than ever in human history) about us vs them, We are right and They are wrong, and because They are wrong, They are stupid and bad people. The fractured world we live in is caused because people can’t have civil political discourse anymore, because there’s no “centre”, because extremism is the only ism, because the world can only be understood in black and white. That’s a recipe for fucking disaster everywhere. 
 

I don’t want us to fracture off into teams. I don’t want anyone to feel alienated for their beliefs. I don’t want anyone screaming at a 16 year old kid without knowing the person they’re talking to is a 16 year old kid. I don’t want anyone to be told they’re a bad person with bad views on the world. There’s a time and a place for that, and I don’t think it’s here in our tight knit community where we’re actively working to reduce conflict and discourage the baiting and trolling common elsewhere on the internet. 
 

Just be kind to each other, and the last decade has shown that tribalistic politics of the day brings out the worst in humans. I never got the “don’t talk religion, money, or politics” thing as a kid but now I get it. Just don’t open that can of worms here. It’s not the right place for it. 

[Gustav 6,469]

41 minutes ago, bigAL said:

I love political discourse, follow current events very closely, am very well educated, and can handle and manage conflict that I’m involved or not in. I know I won’t be joining that channel. You all are my friends and I don’t need to know which of you have *insert adjective here* views on the world. I don’t really want to know who here isn’t sold on the whole “climate change” thing. I’m not interested in hearing who thought that the Palestinians had it coming to them. I don’t want to hear from the “Pinochet did nothing wrong” crowd. I’m all for civil disagreement but that doesn’t exist anymore in our extremist world. 
 

Politics (and not the red vs blue tribalism bullshit that this channel would focus on) is a worldview, a life philosophy, and tied very closely to ones identity. Political discourse becomes extremely dicey when we’re all anonymous profile pics behind a computer. We don’t know people or their story, we are all operating on a different set of fundamental truths based on where we live and how we grew up. We are literally worlds apart from each other, and political discourse like that boils down to judging each other based on different standards that aren’t shared with each other. It’s important to learn about the world by experiencing the world, but...

 

Politics is inherently (and in 2021 more than ever in human history) about us vs them, We are right and They are wrong, and because They are wrong, They are stupid and bad people. The fractured world we live in is caused because people can’t have civil political discourse anymore, because there’s no “centre”, because extremism is the only ism, because the world can only be understood in black and white. That’s a recipe for fucking disaster everywhere. 
 

I don’t want us to fracture off into teams. I don’t want anyone to feel alienated for their beliefs. I don’t want anyone screaming at a 16 year old kid without knowing the person they’re talking to is a 16 year old kid. I don’t want anyone to be told they’re a bad person with bad views on the world. There’s a time and a place for that, and I don’t think it’s here in our tight knit community where we’re actively working to reduce conflict and discourage the baiting and trolling common elsewhere on the internet. 
 

Just be kind to each other, and the last decade has shown that tribalistic politics of the day brings out the worst in humans. I never got the “don’t talk religion, money, or politics” thing as a kid but now I get it. Just don’t open that can of worms here. It’s not the right place for it. 

 

Fair perspective and I agree with a lot of it. My reasoning just comes from the standpoint of "it really wasn't all that bad before" because I feel like if it weren't politics the mod response wouldn't be nearly as big as it was. People blow up genchat and scream about awards every season, does that mean we should stop doing awards? Of course not. I personally feel like I'm reasonable enough to talk with someone I disagree with and learn things from it (in fact, I have some very close friends who I disagree with politically in real life), and that there are a lot of other people here who are the same way. It feels kind of insulting to be told that we're not allowed to have a civil, educated conversation because it breaks some rule which (in my opinion) was put down without any sort of due process.

 

At the end of the day though, I'm not here to talk politics and I feel like anyone who wants to use the league as their own personal political soapbox has the wrong idea of what we're supposed to be as a community. I'm still in favor of the right to talk about whatever peacefully, but your post at least makes sense to me and I can understand why some don't want this to happen.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

[BOOM 8,810]

Only if we can make fun of America.

[Beketov 9,095]

1 hour ago, GustavMattias said:

At the end of the day though, I'm not here to talk politics and I feel like anyone who wants to use the league as their own personal political soapbox has the wrong idea of what we're supposed to be as a community. I'm still in favor of the right to talk about whatever peacefully, but your post at least makes sense to me and I can understand why some don't want this to happen.

Keep in mind as well, politics is NOT banned on the forum. People seem to like to forget that this handy dandy forum exists. So if you want to have that friendly, respectful debate on the forum you are more than welcome to.

 

You could ask: well if it’s fine on the forum why not on discord? To which I would respond: it’s easier to moderate.  Topic gets out of hand? No problem, we can hide the entire thing in one click and retain the evidence we need if punishment is required. On discord we’d have to individually delete the comments while others fly in and then sift trough the logs after for any evidence we need.

 

So basically my response: if you wanna talk politics just use the forum.

[Lefty_S 91]

1 hour ago, BOOM said:

Only if we can make fun of America.

I'm an American and I approve

[jhatty8 675]

this kinda thing just never ends well

[Ledge 1,131]

4 hours ago, Spartan said:

Gen chat should be a NHL discussion channel but some people apparently don't like it lol.

 

mostly just me and quik doing habs vs leafs shit anyway.