"E"

[Beaviss 4,957]

Hello all,

 

As you may know, I am a big proponent of expansions and exciting new features to add to the league. While this has turned it into a meme sometimes, it's not just a meme. While I'm not right all of the time of course, (trivia answer sharing punishments) I do believe a lot of my ideas and theories have been good for the league or at least entertaining to discuss. While I was gone the League and the BOG implemented and announced a brand new league that being the VHLE! While many people thought it would be something I'd look forward to (expansions) you would have been right at first; unfortunately, the deeper I looked into the entire E system and the effect it would have on the rest of the user-base, I started having my doubts. On the surface, the E looks like a great fix for an "issue" the league has, which would be roster room. What it does not do is help the average member stay engaged and active in the league. The "clickers" as they have been more recently called are being kind of put to the side. While some people may like this idea I believe it will be detrimental to the league's health. Having a league entirely dedicated to housing the "clickers" will damage the retention of said "clicking" members. Some may not care about those members, some of which may stay or not, but I personally believe they are crucial to the league(s) to survive. While the E is just a theoretical stop along the way of a career it also delays the average member by at least a season or two it creates the vision of the end goal (of making the VHL) that much more distant. If I had joined the league and had been told that I had to go through two different leagues and that it would take an entire real-life year to reach the VHL I might not have stuck around. Because of this very simple idea, I think the long-term ramifications of having the third league make the VHLE a bad idea.

 

The fact that I have seen many well-known members in discord posts about skipping the E in by any means possible, is just a small example of how this league will be seen as a home for the "clickers". Here are a few things I was able to find quickly while searching on discord.

 

 

This is in no way just an "I don't like the E and these are my thoughts" below are some extra negative effects the E may have on the league's health overall.
1. The VHL Drafts will become barren (2nd and 3rd round picks mean nothing)
2. The STHS engine will struggle to deal with 99's vs 99's (were test sims done?)
3. Disengaging new members
4. Produces mediocre players that don't try to earn more TPE (activity)

 

This is not simply a manifesto, I also have an idea on how to fix the issues that the VHLE was aimed at fixing.
1. Increase the VHLM cap to 350 TPE
2. incentivize VHL General Managers to roll more lines (uncap Endurance stat)
3. (yes I know) Expand the VHL by a couple more teams

These are just a few little edits that could have been made that would make a 3rd league unnecessary.

 

Overall I think the theory of the VHLE makes a lot of sense, although realistically it does not. Having members that will feel isolated and discouraged no how small of an aspect of the league you think this may be, is bad for the website's health overall. All it would take is a couple of bad draft classes and the VHL may suffer the same fate that it had when it had to remove Cologne. With the positive experience that new members and returning members have had with the VHLM why not leave them there for one more season instead of uprooting them for theoretically a single season? That, combined with the "unwatered down" talent that will be the VHL, will greatly reduce overall scoring across the league and recreate another "dead puck era", similar to what the VHL suffered through roughly 20 seasons ago. Take one of my previous players, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, as an example. He is currently 2nd of all time for TPE. In season 71 he scored a total of 88 points, which led the entire league that season. That is just a small example of what could happen when the talent at the highest level is not pitted against the weaker players. You may be thinking by this point "well getting no points isn't fun either" and that is something I'll agree with you on. Most new players or members would most likely come into the league expecting to go through some growing pains as their player gets better and gains more experience. This is like in the NHL, where most players go through some growing pains as they get used to the increased competition that the new league brings.

No matter what stance you have on the VHLE, it's in my opinion that the "clickers" are what keeps the league alive. The fresh faces and the mediocre players that provide the fodder for the best of the best to feast on, and the inspiration that said "clickers" might take from this that causes them to develop more and more investment into this fantastic league and community we have here, is, in my opinion, something that lets the league continue to run the same way.

 

Now, the moment we have all been waiting for; my prediction and foresight for what the E will become and how long it will last. I believe the E will become something that most "active" members will try to avoid. Not because of the General Managers or anyone running the league, but because of the time and impatience that most members have for anything not named the VHL. Without the boost from the most active members helping swell the numbers and drive the activity of the league, they may become stagnant and the majority of members around the league will not care what happens in it. I predict the league will run for 5 seasons before dying a horrendous yet somehow spectacular death.

 

This is the Beaviss manifesto regarding the VHLE

 -Muff

Edited September 16, 2021 by Beaviss

[.sniffuM 1,741]

Just now, Beaviss said:

 -Muff

 

Claim 1 of 1

[Dil 1,760]

e

[Prout 373]

Did not consent to this.... however fuck the e I’ll never play in it.

[rory 1,916]

I am locking this thread now.

[diacope 1,696]

1 minute ago, Dil said:

e

e

[Dil 1,760]

*insert @Devise essay post here*

[Devise 4,475]

2 minutes ago, Dil said:

*insert @Devise essay post here*

 

[Will 4,660]

 

#manipulatedmedia 

[Spartan 4,402]

8 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

1. The VHL Drafts will become barren (2nd and 3rd round picks mean nothing)
2. The STHS engine will struggle to deal with 99's vs 99's (were test sims done?)
3. Disengaging new members
4. Produces mediocre players that don't try to earn more TPE (activity)

Good piece overall but I don't think these side effects are exclusive to the E becoming a thing. E and VHL draft classes are the same, there are already 99's vs 99's and have been for a while, new members get easily disengaged (see Junior Showcase Tournament as a fix) and there will always be mediocre players. If we were only a league for max earners, there'd be like 40-50 of us total.

[Frank 5,209]

@Will skips the E, by not having a player.

[Beaviss 4,957]

12 minutes ago, Frank said:

@Will skips the E, by not having a player.

https://vhlforum.com/topic/108437-s81-lw-commodus-tpe-64/

[Beketov 9,025]

4 hours ago, Will said:

 

#manipulatedmedia 

He also claims we did it when he was gone as if it was some kind of conspiracy when he was part of the majority of the conversation and just left before it was finished. It’s easier to make an argument if you ignore context and fact.

[Beketov 9,025]

5 hours ago, Beaviss said:

This is not simply a manifesto, I also have an idea on how to fix the issues that the VHLE was aimed at fixing.
1. Increase the VHLM cap to 350 TPE
2. incentivize VHL General Managers to roll more lines (uncap Endurance stat)
3. (yes I know) Expand the VHL by a couple more teams

These are just a few little edits that could have been made that would make a 3rd league unnecessary.

@Spartan already did a good job covering why the “problems” aren’t really E problems so I’m gonna focus on your “fixes” instead.

 

1. Your claim is that you don’t want people to have to wait around longer but increasing the VHLM cap to 350 would mean they are waiting around exactly the same amount of time, just in the VHLM for all of it; taking roster spots away from the new guys in the process. The VHLE has the exact same effect as this except IS skippable (this wouldn’t be) and is less messy to remove if we ever have to compared to removing the 6+ new VHLM teams this would require. So basically this is rapid unsustainable expansion #1 (sill get to number 2) and does the exact same thing you are claiming to avoid while simultaneously making things worse for the newest members. Moving on!

 

2. congrats new members, you clawed your way finally out of the VHLM which now took you extra time and your reward is…. 4th line minutes for half your career. You run more lines, people get sub-10 minutes a game for multiple seasons. Add this onto the fact that they are getting to the VHL later without the bonus career year or depreciation changes (you seem universally against the whole announcement so I assume that counts) and you’ve got guys with probably 5 season careers that play 8 minutes a game for 3 of them. What fun! Next!

 

3. Big shocker this one. We already proved that adding 4 teams didn’t even last 4 seasons before the league was full again. Adding more teams has been repeatedly proven as a stopgap measure, isn’t sustainable, and just makes the league less approachable and more confusing. You’d need probably 6 VHLM teams and at least 4 VHL teams to make the is remotely work so that’s 10 new teams that all need to be redistributed if waste hits the spinning turbine.

 

You claim to be a voice for new players but you would choose to make their path harder, their careers shorter, and their minutes minimal. These are not solutions, they are further problems.

 

Does everyone need to want to play in the VHLE? Of course not, I long ago accepted that not everyone will like everything we do. However cherry picking those people out as proof that it doesn’t work, especially when skipping it is possible and skipping the long trek in your “solution” isn’t, doesn’t change that it is what’s best for the majority. The VHLM can teach the new players, as it’s designed, the VHLE can cater to the more experienced who just aren’t ready for the VHL yet, and the VHL gets everyone who’s ready without punishing them for taking too long to get there.

 

Ultimately numbers can and likely will be adjusted, same with all the rules. We’ll tweak to what fits the needs best, no matter what though the VHLE fit the needs of the league best without creating additional problems. A few members wanting to skip it doesn’t prove that it’s a broken system, we built the possibility of a skip in intentionally and reward them for doing so with an extra VHL season. This is not a flaw, this is intentional. People are welcome to skip it if they can manage it.

 

(I got you covered @Devise)

[Will 4,660]

5 hours ago, Frank said:

@Will skips the E, by not having a player.

jokes on you Frankie 

[KC15 340]

Review:  Very well-reasoned article, but I come with a bias.  When the E was announced I thought, "no thanks".  I definitely would want to skip the E.  My current player earned just a few points over the M cap by deadline which forced me to the VHL just about as early as you can go.  I didn't spend much time thinking about it.  First, the advice to skip a few TPE to stay down another year rung hollow in my ears.  I've gotten a little lazier since and sometimes do welfare over a media spot, but just drop TPE?  To stay down?  I don't WANT to stay down.  I'd rather play up and struggle a little early on.  For me, it's mostly about team identity.  I loved the Marlins, but I'm only going to be a Marlin one or two seasons - is that truly my team?  Then I go to the E and maybe play one or two more seasons - is that now my team?  No, my team is my VHL team where I hope to play out my career - the Davos Dynamo.

Back to reviewing.  lol  I think the evidence given against the idea of the E was strong, but I take Beketov's point.  Those were all big earners.  How do the mid earners feel?  The big earners could skip the E without hurting the E leaving it for those who do value it.  Hard to say without asking.  To conclude on a reviewing note, whether one agrees or not with the conclusion, the article is clearly well-written and supported.  The fact that one can agree or disagree illustrates that fact.  Confusing articles just leave one shaking their head wondering what was said - well-written articles expressing an opinion generate comments for and against.  9/10

[Banackock 8,045]

8 hours ago, Will said:

 

#manipulatedmedia 

Mostly just called #Media these days! 

[bigAL 2,176]

The thing that gets me is that this is happening. Like, next week. Hypotheticals are almost over, we’re so close to having evidence and concrete examples to analyze. Can we chill on the theoretical, non-constructive criticism for a bit? I get that it’ll take 6-9 seasons to get a full scope of what we’ve done here, and so we won’t get fully validated for a while, but can we at least try it first?

 

We’ve identified full rosters as a problem close to a calendar year ago. We’ve discussed possible solutions in the BoG for months. There are dozens of pages of discussions, many of which you were involved in. We’ve fine-tuned, tinkered, and identified and solved hypothetical issues for a long time. We announced it, and opened up a “VHLE Questions” thread that further explained the league and gave the community opportunity to raise important questions. 
 

I know you’ve been gone, I’m not shaming you for that, but a lot of people have put a lot of thought and a lot of effort over a lot of time before, during, and after your leave. 
 

We’re trying something new, and that’s scary. I know it wasn’t your idea. I know you weren’t convinced behind closed doors. I know you don’t think it’ll work. I feel like there’s nothing we could do that would make you believe it’s a good idea. But don’t you want us to succeed? Because persuading people that it’s stupid and it’s going to suck and you should hate it, one week before go time, is not setting anyone up for success. 
 

Just, chill. The structure is built, let’s just see what happens when we press play. Give us the benefit of the doubt that we actually thought about this and want it to succeed. Trust that we’re not purposefully trying to tank the league. Believe we can identify and solve unexpected problems as they come up. Things take time, but no one wants to wait. Just, chill. We’ll find out what happens so, so soon. 

[JeffD 648]

3 hours ago, bigAL said:

The thing that gets me is that this is happening. Like, next week. Hypotheticals are almost over, we’re so close to having evidence and concrete examples to analyze. Can we chill on the theoretical, non-constructive criticism for a bit? I get that it’ll take 6-9 seasons to get a full scope of what we’ve done here, and so we won’t get fully validated for a while, but can we at least try it first?

 

We’ve identified full rosters as a problem close to a calendar year ago. We’ve discussed possible solutions in the BoG for months. There are dozens of pages of discussions, many of which you were involved in. We’ve fine-tuned, tinkered, and identified and solved hypothetical issues for a long time. We announced it, and opened up a “VHLE Questions” thread that further explained the league and gave the community opportunity to raise important questions. 
 

I know you’ve been gone, I’m not shaming you for that, but a lot of people have put a lot of thought and a lot of effort over a lot of time before, during, and after your leave. 
 

We’re trying something new, and that’s scary. I know it wasn’t your idea. I know you weren’t convinced behind closed doors. I know you don’t think it’ll work. I feel like there’s nothing we could do that would make you believe it’s a good idea. But don’t you want us to succeed? Because persuading people that it’s stupid and it’s going to suck and you should hate it, one week before go time, is not setting anyone up for success. 
 

Just, chill. The structure is built, let’s just see what happens when we press play. Give us the benefit of the doubt that we actually thought about this and want it to succeed. Trust that we’re not purposefully trying to tank the league. Believe we can identify and solve unexpected problems as they come up. Things take time, but no one wants to wait. Just, chill. We’ll find out what happens so, so soon. 

 

Couldn't agree more. This just strikes me as some sort of hit piece on the league. While I personally don't know if I would want to play in the E if I recreated for a couple of different reasons, it also isn't catered to users who normally max earn like myself when they have players, nor the players the majority of those quotes came from. I also don't really want to play in the M, so there is that.

 

I can't imagine playing four minutes a game in the VHL is a super enjoyable experience for a lot of users so this gives them the ability to contribute to a team. Some guys really enjoy playing in the M, I'm sure others will love playing in the E. Maybe some people enjoy playing that little just to have the VHL experience, but being a marginal player in a league has got to suck to some.

[Jubis 1,348]

This yet 

[JardyB10 4,865]

This seems like something I'd enjoy talking about on my Chodesode tomorrow. I think your concerns are legitimate, as they were and are the first things I was concerned with too. I wanted to strawpoll the entire member base to gather some data on people's thoughts on this and what their career goals were and stuff like that, though that never gained any traction.

 

Albert is right on giving it a chance, and as a former blue myself I DON'T LIKE THIS NEGATIVE NANCY SMEAR CAMPAIGN, SIR! Though bringing up doubts is legitimate, flat out saying, "this is bad and it's going to fail" isn't great.

 

With that in mind, I think marketing will play a role in the success/failure of the VHLE. Like @KC15 said, one of the best parts of the VHL experience is the team identity. So if slow earners are looking at spending 25-50% of their career in the VHLE, is that necessarily such a bad experience for them? The lower VHLM cap will shunt everyone out of that league quite quickly, and after that you could be spending a good amount of time on your new VHLE team. Your ~300 TPE guys are going to be elite in this league, and that's a very achievable goal for everyone. Why shouldn't members be amped to play 3 seasons in the mid-league? They're going to be leading their team and being in tough competition in that time, with just as much drama and volatility as the big leagues. They don't have to ride the bench or be journeymen cap casualties every season. And when they finally do hit 350-400 TPE and are ready for the VHL, they'll instantly bring value to their team. I think it's an experience that we could encourage and applaud instead of poopooing it and making it feel like it's the lesser experience.

 

That said, I would still like to know if your average "clicker" even likes the idea of a VHLE as opposed to grinding lower lines in the VHL, and I do think your concern about returning to the Dead Puck Era is very legitimate possibility. At this point, time will tell, and we can hope for the best!

[Banackock 8,045]

[fromtheinside 1,290]

I also am not a huge fan of the E, but to your main point of injustice to the clickers... I do feel like the idea of the VHL being the league for the best of the best and the people who are interested in putting the work in to make their player good enough. Just like real hockey, if you put in the hard work, you get called upon to play in the big leagues. It will be up to the VHLE GMs and AGMs to make the E a fun place to play in. I find it much more detrimental for VHL teams to be carrying a bunch of dead weight around  and having less playing time for everyone because as a result. I

 

However, on the other hand, I do think you did make some good alternative points. I think you're right about the VHL Drafts getting diluted. I also think it's going to cripple the M alot by lowering their player cap to 200. It really makes the M feel more redundant which sucks. I like the alternative of raising the M cap to 350 to be honest. 

 

Overall, though I don't exactly agree with all your points, it well laid out nicely and a good read. Nice work Beav.

[v.2 1,406]

Great article, reflects a lot of my sentiments and opinions about the E.  I like that you included a list of ideas for a fix, and the discord pics (even if some may be manipulated in your favour lol).  Formatting could be better here for an easier read but ah well.  Overall 9/10

[Beaviss 4,957]

2nd claim