S68 Referendum: Unban boubabi

[Phil 5,120]

I think a public poll to determine whether to unban Boubabi is as stupid as Brexit, but that's okay. Not sure what weight it carries. 

 

I voted and immediately regretted voting because it occurs to me that I was not active when the banning actually went down, so the specifics of what ultimately led him getting banned to me remain unknown. While i was still active he played by his own rules, cheated on his update threads to get more TPE than he should, lambasted anyone who had a differing opinion, including openly bashed the Commishes and imo that's a shitty attitude that I don't want to see anywhere and we definitely lost members because of it. There's no arguing that he did a lot of work for the site and that should definitely not be forgotten. 

 

So I am going to remove myself from this discussion. I do not have all the facts to make an informed decision. If people want to fill me in then I will be happy to voice my opinion. But what I said above is the extent of my knowledge on the situation.

[Enorama 2,038]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

If people want to fill me in then I will be happy to voice my opinion.

 

An encapsulation:

 

 

If you don't actually want to read the thread, this single comment tells you this gist:

 

 

[uphillmoss 134]

56 minutes ago, Enorama said:

 

An encapsulation:

 

 

If you don't actually want to read the thread, this single comment tells you this gist:

 

 

Can we just appreciate the fact that he still won by twice as many votes as degrath. This is a dud complaining about winning an award

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

7 hours ago, Sixersfan549 said:

Then he'll get banned again -- not like it takes 2-3 hours of excruciating pain to press the ban hammer.

 

Give him a "7 day tryout" tell him you do dumb shit and you're back to being banned. Follow that up w 2 weeks. Go from there. 

He had all that before.

[Beketov 9,041]

31 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

He had all that before.

Exactly. A quick rundown of his history from the ban thread (which i don’t believe includes it all) is:

 

1. 48 hour ban.

2. Indefinite Ban which was lifted after I believe 3 days.

3. 24 hour post moderation + 1 week PT ban.

4. 24 hour ban (which got later extended to 48 hours).

5. Indefinite Ban which holds to this day.

 

He was not given 1 chance and then thrown out. He was given many opportunities to change and refused. The above 5 stretched between December 2017 and April 2018 and increased in frequency as time went on and they only represent his actual suspensions, not the amount of warnings he received.

[Dil 1,760]

7 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Exactly. A quik rundown of his history from the ban thread (which i don’t believe includes it all) is:

 

1. 48 hour ban.

2. Indefinite Ban which was lifted after I believe 3 days.

3. 24 hour post moderation + 1 week PT ban.

4. 24 hour ban (which got later extended to 48 hours).

5. Indefinite Ban which holds to this day.

 

He was not given 1 chance and then thrown out. He was given many opportunities to change and refused. The above 5 stretched between December 2017 and April 2018 and increased in frequency as time went on and they only represent his actual suspensions, not the amount of warnings he received.

6th times the charm  

[Baozi 1,660]

17 minutes ago, DilIsPickle said:

6th times the charm  

 

Says the guy on his 12th chance.

[Dil 1,760]

1 minute ago, tfong said:

 

Says the guy on his 12th chance.

Cyber bullying isn’t okay tfong

[TacticalHammer 95]

Fwiw I wasn't around when he was (although I heard things second-hand). I just read through that Award thread though, and holy crap absolutely do not unban this insane person. 

[Exlaxchronicles 415]

4 hours ago, Beketov said:

That was exactly the criteria he was given last time he came back. After his first perma-Ban was lifted he received another suspension of like a day or something, I don’t recall the length. We told him in no uncertain terms that we were done dealing with his antics. He was being given a single chance and if he stepped out of line again there would be no more chances. I can dig around and find the actual terms we laid down if you’d like.

 

I am a little curious as to the context of the situation that perma banned him but no need to Bek.

I was here when he received the ban and was indifferent to it all back then as as I am now. You admins have it all under control

[Higgins 3,618]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

Exactly. A quik rundown of his history from the ban thread (which i don’t believe includes it all) is:

 

1. 48 hour ban.

2. Indefinite Ban which was lifted after I believe 3 days.

3. 24 hour post moderation + 1 week PT ban.

4. 24 hour ban (which got later extended to 48 hours).

5. Indefinite Ban which holds to this day.

 

He was not given 1 chance and then thrown out. He was given many opportunities to change and refused. The above 5 stretched between December 2017 and April 2018 and increased in frequency as time went on and they only represent his actual suspensions, not the amount of warnings he received.

 

Heres something to think about.

 

How come the people that were involved in arguing with boubs are some of the same people that get to decide his fate forever?

 

The most frustrating part is the lack of the people from the other side admitting they pushed boubabi on purpose and he responded in kind + some. When it’s 5 vs 1 in a thread I can see it from the viewpoint of the 1 and it’s a terrible place.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Higgins

[gorlab 4,321]

He CoMplAiNeD aBoUt A sIm AwArD!!1!!1!

 

 

oH tHe HumAnIty!!1!1!!

[Baozi 1,660]

8 minutes ago, Higgins said:

 

Heres something to think about.

 

How come the people that were involved in arguing with boubs are some of the same people that get to decide his fate forever?

 

The most frustrating part is the lack of the people from the other side admitting they pushed boubabi on purpose and he responded in kind + some. When it’s 5 vs 1 in a thread I can see it from the viewpoint of the 1 and it’s a terrible place.

 

Not that it is true all the time but the phrase "If everyone around you seems like an asshole..." comes to mind.

 

Conversely from a purely numbers view, would you rather keep the 5 people or the 1 person if it was the case there? Altruistically its better to sacrifice the 1 versus the 5 unless the 1 provides more value than the 5.

Edited August 6, 2019 by tfong

[Will 4,660]

IDK my take.. have always been pretty moderate on this issue

 

The fact that there was a time when he was a good contributing, albeit strong willed, member...i think shows something changed once before so change is not necessarily out of the realm of possibility. Who knows maybe he was having personal issues at the time.

 

But more likely, I think it was just regular Boubabi - but exacerbated 100-fold by the culture of the league at the time. Looking back now at the hatred that existed between the different sides was pretty deep - i dont even know how it started but in hindsight i dont think any amount of warnings/chances was going to end it.. it was a constant cycle of provoking, playing the victim, then the warnings and the suspensions, then a few hours later do it all over again. I think it likely became inevitable pretty quickly someone was going to banned to break the cycle, though I didn't know that at the time. For everything boubabi did wrong he wasn't randomly attacking anyone that walked by, he would lash out at people who chimed in to disagree with him and whatnot, but i think if you look at it..pretty much every instance started between boubabi and the same people over and over again.

 

I had a spent a lot of time trying to help him avoid a ban and cool things down. I don't know why he refused to take my advice but he didn't and that's ultimately what led me to be comfortable with the decision to ban at the time. I saw no other options. But, I said up to the day he was banned, many things were his fault entirely - there were others that certainly shared in responsibility for some of what happened but skirted the line of 'going too far', and i continue to believe that some of those people operated with the clear goal of provocation.

 

Take from that what you will. 

 

Also, I'm not sure why people are referencing that award vote as what makes Boubabi crazy. He went about it horribly, no doubt, but his argument was valid. It looks silly when he won by a margin is acting like a fool but as someone said in the thread, if that was actually a close award then he would have lost it due some voting that him, me and everyone else knew to be 100% bias. That vote literally led directly to the Award Committee being established; so yeah he acted like an idiot but it wasn't some conspiracy theory. 

 

^ Edit: I actually thought we were taking about that one Award Ceremony thread, not a public Slobo vote. 

[Phil 5,120]

4 hours ago, Enorama said:

 

An encapsulation:

 

 

If you don't actually want to read the thread, this single comment tells you this gist:

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I voted for DeGrath.

 

 

[Phil 5,120]

But okay, so it's more of the same attitude that I had explained above. Bringing him back, even if he wanted to come back, would not change his personality. It would be the same shit all over again, minus the cheating, with the changes to the Portal system. 

[Baozi 1,660]

To this day I still wonder how he is going to operate as a grown up in a office place where he disagrees with a coworker or boss. I mean the guy isn't stupid to say the least. Hes just very narcissistic. He was in University last I remember so he wasn't in the job force yet, but if you can't keep your ego in check at work, you better be the boss or someone irreplaceable. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by tfong

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

But okay, so it's more of the same attitude that I had explained above. Bringing him back, even if he wanted to come back, would not change his personality. It would be the same shit all over again, minus the cheating, with the changes to the Portal system. 

I think he would still try to post old sigs as a new link though. Me and @Beketov had to police him for awhile with our own thread full of his past PTs to make sure he wasn't re-posting them.

 

Then it came to a point where he saw other people claiming graphics that were worse than his for 6 TPE, and had an outrage. But that's the thing, Boubabi and some others are just so good at graphics. You can't really compare the effort of those to people who are trying it out or just gradually learning. He started to purposely make shitty sigs as well and claim them for 6 TPE, and arguing that it looks like some of the ones other people make. But I mean, you know for Boubabi that took him 1 minute, and he was purposely trying to make a joke of it.

 

If we went by the Boubabi/Gorlab/etc standard, then 95% of people would not be getting 6 TPE for their graphics. Grading was definitely like that in the past with the rubric, and even for writing where like 5-6 grammar mistakes took TPE away from you, but it's different now. It's the same way it is in the SBA/EFL/SHL etc etc where word count, effort, relevancy, etc are the main factors to your TPE now. Graphics are obviously harder to judge, because you have to go by a user's past submissions and try to see if they're improving from where they started. But even then, and I've said it before, that I can't see giving anybody less than 4 TPE fair at all, because welfare is 4 TPE and that's for doing nothing at all.

[Smarch 3,177]

1 hour ago, tfong said:

To this day I still wonder how he is going to operate as a grown up in a office place where he disagrees with a coworker or boss. I mean the guy isn't stupid to say the least. Hes just very narcissistic. He was in University last I remember so he wasn't in the job force yet, but if you can't keep your ego in check at work, you better be the boss or someone irreplaceable. 

You need to slow your roll here, there is no correlation on how you act in a SIM hockey league will indicate how you act in life. I’ve meet many trolls on line that are amazing workers, as they can understand the need to separate the two. 

[Baozi 1,660]

1 hour ago, Smarch said:

You need to slow your roll here, there is no correlation on how you act in a SIM hockey league will indicate how you act in life. I’ve meet many trolls on line that are amazing workers, as they can understand the need to separate the two. 

 

So my question is thus, if you can control it in real life, then why can you not control it online? The answer is actually a double edged sword.

 

a) You can control being a jerk, you just choose not to. This means internally you choose to be a jerk to other people in this (online) community, therefore in my mind you're just a pretender/fake personality and I'd judge you as thus (a jerk).

 

b) You can't control and you're both a jerk in real life and online. Well then it just confirms to me you're a jerk.

 

The a) person can hide being a jerk in real life, but it just means when there are no societal restraints (ie anonymity online) it just means they are really jerks at their core. Still makes them terrible people. That being said, if he can be the a) type person, its fine, he can survive in the real world. But that still makes them a jerk and i will treat them as thus anyways.

 

All this subscribes to my theory that humans are born as jerks, and only individuals that put in effort can be good people.

Edited August 6, 2019 by tfong

[Higgins 3,618]

I was talking to boubabi about this thread and he read through it. His response was simply this image:

 

[Gustav 6,436]

Wait, this guy won the award by a wide margin, and complained because the vote wasn't unanimous? I'd always thought it was because he deserved the award, but was voted out of it.

 

Still not taking a side, but that's ridiculous.

[Higgins 3,618]

3 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

Wait, this guy won the award by a wide margin, and complained because the vote wasn't unanimous? I'd always thought it was because he deserved the award, but was voted out of it.

 

Still not taking a side, but that's ridiculous.

 

A brigade of people, consisting of people that butted heads with boubs and others, voted against him just to get a reaction not because they were voting for the award. It's always been a problem here with bias voting against or for a member over the player.

 

Went overboard in S59. Usually it's a vote or two.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Higgins

[Devise 4,475]

4 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Went overboard in S59. Usually it's @eaglesfan036 

 

Fixed it for you. 

 

 

[Baozi 1,660]

36 minutes ago, Higgins said:

I was talking to boubabi about this thread and he read through it. His response was simply this image:

 

 

To be fair that Slobo voting (which he was going to win anyways) was really an odd hill to die on since he was going to win it anyways. I did understand why he was irked by the principle though. But on the other hand it was one of those things he could have prevented personally.

Edited August 6, 2019 by tfong