Can we have a constructive conversation about the BoG?

[JeffD 648]

38 minutes ago, rory said:

i think there should be more non-GM members  

There are currently two non-staff general managers on the BoG. How is that an issue? There should actually be general manager representation on the BoG to get the differing views people seem to want. There should be representation from VHL management, VHLM management  and the non-management population.

[frescoelmo 1,282]

Friendly reminder to keep this conversation A1 and maintain a relevant, open-minded discussion limited to constructive criticism, if necessary.

 

Or I will lock this thread

 

[fishy 1,757]

you've seen master apology posts, now get ready for: master /thank you for your contribution/ post!!! There are too many pages at this point for me to quote people's responses because it's incredibly inconvenient to do so, so stick with me as I try to figure out the best format.

 

@Devise, you said, "Sure, I have no problem clarifying, and for the record when I said hyperbole I mean the use of specific phrases. I genuinely think this is a constructive media spot for the most part, I just feel like phrases like that coming from staff with access send a larger message than you may be intending. As an example, when you say "We don't know what's going on in the BoG" the uninformed, who haven't seen the update your talking about use that as a narrative to say "the BoG is hiding what they are doing and never has released an update about their accounts.""

 

Thanks for the clarification. It's helpful for me to understand how my words are being interpreted, and I appreciate that you brought this to my attention. I'll keep it in mind moving forward.

 

With that being said, @Advantage, I've realized that my post may have come off as "you were doing this thing, then stopped, so you suck." I hope you know that was never my intention. I've greatly appreciated the BoG updates that you've shared, and by bringing them up, I was hoping to give you a hat tip for the work you've put in. Thank you for your contributions to this thread and the community through your updates!!

 

@Fire Vigneault, you said, "I feel like there's some sort of mystique about the BoG or people thinking we're more important than we are."

 

After reading the responses in this thread, I think I have a better understanding to where this sentiment comes from. One of my goals with the post was to understand why BoG members kept saying this. In my very humble opinion, it feels condescending to hear, "well, we're not paid, and it's not really a big deal that we exist/who is on the Board." There's an inherent degree of privilege that comes with sitting on the Board of Governors in the same way that there is privilege in being a Commissioner, staff member, or GM. Those groups have access to information that isn't available to the general public (and I'm not necessarily saying that it should be different); smaller groups mean that individual voices carry more weight.

 

"It's literally a group of individuals who are able to have focused discussions about possible changes to the league. Key word is "focused" - there's a reason that not all discussion or decisions is opened up to the league at large. It becomes much harder to stay on topic and keep a focused conversation about a single topic." from @Fire Vigneault

and

"BoG is not perfect and never will be. It's a conglomerate of minds who are used as opinions to help Blue Team make a final decision. They are advisers and had only have power on HOF and Awards really." from @Rayzor_7

 

These are two of the best explanations of the Board that I've seen. It helps me understand where you're coming from when you say that the BoG isn't that big of a deal and why you all feel that being distinguished from the rest of the community is inappropriate. Thank you for these contributions, they're really helpful for me to get your perspective on the conversation.

 

@Quik thanks for your post, pal. We've chatted a bit about it and what you mention in your post is pretty similar to the thoughts already shared. I appreciate your contribution.

 

@bigAL, you said, "Yeah but everyone else on here is arguing for everyone to be on the governance committee (either by abolishing it or opening every BoG discussion to the public for unfettered input)."

 

I surely hope this isn't how my post is being interpreted. I never said that we should get rid of the Board, nor did I say that your discussions should be open to the public. Someone else also commented with a similar sentiment, suggesting that I (or someone else) proposed that all discussions be opened up. I'm just clarifying: that's not the case. Advantage's posts were a great example of how to keep the community in the loop without leaving a whole lot of room for the general membership of the league to feel that we should have a voice in those discussions.

 

As the conversation continues, I'm going to put a couple additional notes about things I said in my OP.

 

First, the idea of public votes is shit. I'm taking it back. There's no good way to do it, and until the community trusts the BoG (and vice versa) to make the best decisions that they can, public voting isn't the move. Those of you who pointed out that it could be memed to hell may be right or wrong, I don't know. I want to believe you're cynics, but at the end of the day, I agree that public voting raises a handful of serious and valid concerns that simply don't need to be an issue. Thanks for the feedback on that idea.

 

Second, a few members (again, I don't really feel like going to find exactly who, so hopefully you're reading this) pointed out that the BoG hasn't been doing much lately, hence the lack of updates. That's fine. Cool cool cool. However, I'm asking you to realize that I didn't (and still only have a shaky idea) know what kinds of topics you're involved in the conversation with, e.g., GM hirings. If I don't know what kinds of topics are discussed, then I can't know whether conversations are happening. Therefore, I can't know whether we haven't received an update because conversations simply haven't been happening or if we're being left out of the loop.

 

Third, as @GustavMattiaspointed out in one of his posts, "This is why I'm saying this debate is a two-way street--I want to help the community and so does everybody else. I want to listen to constructive criticism and so does everybody else. Points that aren't points at all but are rather just "lol stupid BoG is dumb and bad" accomplish neither of those things."

 

Nothing can change if members on both sides of the conversation are willing to listen and compromise. This means that attacking the Board is an ineffective way to try to force change. Memeing about nuking the BoG is fun, yeah, but I'm worried that the meme has gotten to a point where the community has trouble taking the conversation seriously. Members of the Board of Governors ought to be open to feedback, which, from this thread, I would say that they're obviously listening; on the flip side, non-members need to understand that sometimes our ideas are misplaced or simply not the best option. As with any discussion, it's difficult to accept that sometimes your own ideas aren't the best ones. It's also difficult to separate the negative feelings that some people have about the Board from what they're saying - the Board responding to my post isn't them necessarily being defensive (though, let's be real, neither side of the discussion has been perfectly behaved). I made a post about the Board, the Board responds. Exactly as it should be.

 

Finally, although I hoped it would be made clear in my OP, I am reiterating that this post 1) is by no means an attack on the BoG and 2) aims to bridge a gap that we have created. Regardless of whether you think that the gap is warranted, I think we can collectively agree that conversations about the Board of Governors get hot very quickly. I don't see a need for that. If members are voicing concerns, the BoG ought to listen. As we saw with the simming complaints, they'll respond as they see fit. Does that mean that I agree with every decision? No. That's not the point - the point is that there's no good reason to create a divide between members of a community intended for enjoyment.

 

At this point, I still think the league would greatly benefit from a formal post that is readily accessible for future reference from the Board of Governors (or Commissioners) explaining your role. I now have a better idea of what that is, but I think the community would greatly benefit by having that information shared publicly. BoG members consistently say that the community had made the BoG mystical, but I think that is (in part) due to the fact that you all exist, and there's not a whole lot of easily accessible information about your role here.

 

I appreciate the constructive feedback I've received so far. To those who have given it, thank you for your patience.

[Gustav 6,469]

10 minutes ago, frescoelmo said:

Friendly reminder to keep this conversation A1 and maintain a relevant, open-minded discussion limited to constructive criticism, if necessary.

 

Or I will lock this thread

 

 

...why?

 

There's disagreement but I don't see anything even close to lock-worthy.

[frescoelmo 1,282]

3 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

 

...why?

 

There's disagreement but I don't see anything even close to lock-worthy.

 

Because that is my role

[Gustav 6,469]

Just now, frescoelmo said:

Because that is my role

 

Fair enough.

 

Gotta hit that quota somehow 

[Jubis 1,350]

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

The BOG and Blue Team are corrupt they take our donations and split it between them to have an annual ice cream sundae party in victors basement

[Beketov 9,103]

2 hours ago, WentzKneeFan036 said:

The BOG and Blue Team are corrupt they take our donations and split it between them to have an annual ice cream sundae party in victors basement

That would be an impressive level of planning. I can’t even get @Will to travel 2 hours to come get a beer with me.

[Will 4,662]

3 minutes ago, Beketov said:

That would be an impressive level of planning. I can’t even get @Will to travel 2 hours to come get a beer with me.

 

To be fair that was supposed to happen when I was going to be up there for my courses...and then they all got virtual-ized  I don't think I've been to Halifax since February 2020. 

 

But we'll get it done eventually 

[Garsh 1,195]

3 hours ago, frescoelmo said:

Friendly reminder to keep this conversation A1

 

I don't know what this has to do with anything but here I guess

[frescoelmo 1,282]

1 hour ago, Garsh said:

 

I don't know what this has to do with anything but here I guess

 

 

[fonziGG 1,071]

All I'm going to say is that I have never received a single DM from any member in this league in regards to a certain topic being brought up to the BoG ever since I was brought in. So while I can understand that theres a "transparency" issue, I'm also not seeing the other side of the street wanting more information.

 

At the end of the day, I'm encouraging you to be more transparent. My DM's are always open for every single member in this league.

 

[rory 1,945]

5 hours ago, JeffD said:

There are currently two non-staff general managers on the BoG. How is that an issue? There should actually be general manager representation on the BoG to get the differing views people seem to want. There should be representation from VHL management, VHLM management  and the non-management population.

Smh stinky jeff. Eno, gus, fonzi and that's only non staff VHL gms.

[fonziGG 1,071]

1 minute ago, rory said:

Smh stinky jeff. Eno, gus, fonzi and that's only non staff VHL gms.

Technically I'm staff lol

[Jubis 1,350]

Why are @rory  and @gorlab not in the BOG ?

These are the guys I want in there. 

Then I want someone to share the conversations

[Acydburn 1,618]

15 hours ago, Josh said:

 

lmao how did I get in???

Wasn't it by default? Can't hid the admin from the forum so might as well  jk

[rory 1,945]

18 minutes ago, fonziGG said:

Technically I'm staff lol

Okay sorry I sub mcwolf for fonzi

[McWolf 3,116]

1 hour ago, rory said:

Okay sorry I sub mcwolf for fonzi

y u do dis to me rori

[Gustav 6,469]

Hi don't mind me, just adding a comment as per my obligation as Chief of Horny Police

[fishy 1,757]

claim 2/3, week ending april 4

 

[fishy 1,757]

claim 3/3, week ending april 11

 

[Mr_Hatter 1,608]

Late to the party and I know it's been touched on before, but VSN BOG updates are still planned to occur, but as others have mentioned there isn't always content for it