Was Portal Practice Facility a Mistake?

[Gustav 6,430]

Unpopular opinion time!

 

A couple seasons ago (I think? Sometime in recent memory at least) it was announced that practice facility would now be made available on the portal, and the updaters fell on their knees and thanked the great portal overlord @Will. So did many others, myself included. To this day, portal practice facility remains one of the greatest technological advancements in VHL history, providing quick and easy convenience to everyone popping online every week.

 

So why do I think it's problematic?

 

Since practice facility was moved to the portal, we have had so many new players create...and then proceed to claim nothing but practice facility. No welfare, no press conference, no small articles. Just practice facility, week after week, and that's it. Claiming 2 TPE a week on a career path to nowhere, even at the VHLM level. I've even reached out to many of these players through a forum message, asking how things were going and reminding them that they could claim welfare as well if they had no time for PTs, and I haven't gotten a single response, nor have these players changed their earning in any way. I first noticed that this was happening shortly after the Great YouTube Disaster of S69 and it hasn't slowed down since. The links I dropped in there are only limited to players who created, did practice facility for three weeks or more, and then either went inactive or continued to do just that every week, still hanging around but in a manner that's 100% invisible. If we want to look at players who did one or two other things and then went back to only getting 2 per week, we can do that too, and even that doesn't cover people who only did practice facility for two weeks or fewer before leaving (and, trust me, there are a lot of links to throw in there as well). Sure, this happened to some extent before the shift, but it hasn't happened at nearly the rate we're seeing now. Retirements or disappearances at 32-34 after a couple practice facility claims have always been common, but never before did we see people going into the 50s on practice facility claims alone, and then being completely unreachable with advice. So what's happening?

 

1. We may be getting app-only users who neither look at the forum nor know how to use it. I have never used the app. I don't know what's on the app. I don't know how forum-functional the app is. According to @Enorama today in Discord, this is a possibility. If that's what's happening, then maybe it's time to annoy @Dil to make the forum more accessible on the app.

 

2. It may just be a YouTube thing. Something about a large part of the recent audience of YouTube recruits has led to our recruitment numbers being not at all as strong as they once were in recent seasons. Many of these PF-only players came from YouTube drives, so it could simply be a matter of the audience we're targeting. Might want to hit a different channel next time?

 

3. Having a TPE button on the portal may be legitimately messing with the ability of some people to understand earning, and in some cases, preventing them from figuring it out. Having one method of earning points in a different setting than every single other method of earning points can present a confusing situation. We may be getting people who think that practice facility is the only way to earn points. We may be getting people who, because of this false notion, simply do not care about the forum, and do not check it, not getting involved with their teams and not receiving the education necessary to become a solid earner. 

 

I'm not saying "let's take practice facility off the portal," but simply presenting a bit of a problematic situation that I feel this has certainly at least contributed to in some way. If we take it off the portal and bring it back to the forum, sure, everyone would hate it. The updaters would hate it even more. People would think I'm an idiot and probably still will even after going through my reasoning.

 

So would putting practice facility on the forum be popular? Hell no. Would I want it to happen? Also no, but I'd hate it less than most people. This is more of a discussion thread than a suggestion.

 

What do you think?

[Victor 10,947]

I like practice facility on the forum because it's like a pulse check of how many people are active each week....

[Banackock 8,057]

Keep it in the portal... 100%

[Nykonax 1,564]

fuck no it wasnt a mistake tf r u high gustav i didnt even read your 3 page article and i can already tell you your just plain fucking wrong

[Motzaburger 1,590]

Keep the button in the portal and if they click the button it brings them to the forum  

[Gustav 6,430]

5 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

Keep the button in the portal and if they click the button it brings them to the forum  

Either that or just rickroll them

[Josh 1,671]

1 hour ago, Victor said:

I like practice facility on the forum because it's like a pulse check of how many people are active each week....

 

cough trivia cough

[Corco 1,242]

This is an interesting take

[Devise 4,475]

Yeah the argument that we have users that only use the Portal and treat it like an App, especially now that I believe we have mobile stuff is pretty much my take. I think it's a good thing too. Instead of pushing people to use forums (which despite my love for them are an outdated way for the "kids" to communicate) we should be pushing more to the Portal/App. The idea that we would have some users who are less community driven/focused but treat it more like a game and will do bare minimum or a bit extra while logging in weekly to update their player is absolutely fine. It'll never be the bulk of all users, and we still have enough community leaders and drivers keeping the forum going. Obviously you want to cross promote and encourage people to engage everywhere, but there is nothing wrong with differing levels of user tiers when it comes to activity and engagement with the site. 

 

 

[Viper 530]

Well, if they aren't going to use the forum anyway, keep the button so they can at least get 2 a week. That is only if they don't use the forum. Maybe we should make it so that if you're over 100 TPE, you can use the button, and if you're under 100 TPE, the button will link you to the forum page. Interesting take, indeed.

[Gustav 6,430]

6 minutes ago, Viperxhawks19 said:

Well, if they aren't going to use the forum anyway, keep the button so they can at least get 2 a week. That is only if they don't use the forum. Maybe we should make it so that if you're over 100 TPE, you can use the button, and if you're under 100 TPE, the button will link you to the forum page. Interesting take, indeed.

 

I really like this, actually. It keeps the convenience for those who know what they're doing, and it makes sure that all new members must at least visit the forum (and, by extension, have to look at things other than practice facility and learn about other TPE opportunities, welfare included) so that they aren't getting lost and caught up in some idea that 2 TPE a week is going to get them anywhere.

 

Something I think people are missing is just how slowly you'll develop if you're only claiming 2 a week--doing practice facility only, you would take over 2 full years to reach 250 TPE, and your career would be over before you even got to the point where you got the chance to do well in the VHLM. If you want to only earn 2 a week even after learning about welfare and all that, that's your problem...but right now we've got something going on which is probably limiting the enjoyment of those who just don't get it yet.

 

I'm still not saying "let's take it off the portal entirely," especially since this is a good idea. Let people establish themselves and become familiar with the forum first--there's zero benefit to the player, to the league, or to the team if someone who's sitting at 50 TPE for the entire season still fits the "active" category despite (probably) not even being remotely involved.

 

And even if they are keeping up with the portal stuff, wouldn't you like to know if what you were doing wouldn't get you anywhere before you went and did it for weeks on end?

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 hour ago, GustavMattias said:

 

I really like this, actually. It keeps the convenience for those who know what they're doing, and it makes sure that all new members must at least visit the forum (and, by extension, have to look at things other than practice facility and learn about other TPE opportunities, welfare included) so that they aren't getting lost and caught up in some idea that 2 TPE a week is going to get them anywhere.

 

Something I think people are missing is just how slowly you'll develop if you're only claiming 2 a week--doing practice facility only, you would take over 2 full years to reach 250 TPE, and your career would be over before you even got to the point where you got the chance to do well in the VHLM. If you want to only earn 2 a week even after learning about welfare and all that, that's your problem...but right now we've got something going on which is probably limiting the enjoyment of those who just don't get it yet.

 

I'm still not saying "let's take it off the portal entirely," especially since this is a good idea. Let people establish themselves and become familiar with the forum first--there's zero benefit to the player, to the league, or to the team if someone who's sitting at 50 TPE for the entire season still fits the "active" category despite (probably) not even being remotely involved.

 

And even if they are keeping up with the portal stuff, wouldn't you like to know if what you were doing wouldn't get you anywhere before you went and did it for weeks on end?

 

So, it's funny you mention that.

 

A long time ago, there was a member who was either named Viet Treu (or something close to that or Ice Dragon?...whatever) or his player name was that...but I remember him as Viet. He spoke broken English as a second language during a time where your media spots were graded and before welfare. He chose to just take the two points from practice facility as a VHLM player and his fan590 and just stayed in the VHLM for almost his entire career. Then he left.

 

Nothing really constructive to add...just noting/remember we have had members like that in the past.

[Gustav 6,430]

17 minutes ago, flyersfan1453 said:

So, it's funny you mention that.

 

A long time ago, there was a member who was either named Viet Treu (or something close to that or Ice Dragon?...whatever) or his player name was that...but I remember him as Viet. He spoke broken English as a second language during a time where your media spots were graded and before welfare. He chose to just take the two points from practice facility as a VHLM player and his fan590 and just stayed in the VHLM for almost his entire career. Then he left.

 

Nothing really constructive to add...just noting/remember we have had members like that in the past.

 

And that's fine; if someone chooses to do that I don't care, so long as they have the knowledge that other opportunities are available and know how to use them even if they choose not to.

 

My main concern is that the current system might be taking away from that knowledge--I'm sure we have had people in the past who have done this and I'm not surprised to hear it. But we've never had large groups of people doing it at the same time (you could fill up a team with the people I found, and that's all I cared to look for), and I'm worried that we've got people who think that the portal is the league and don't even know how to contribute outside of it. And if they stay on the portal or the app and never touch the forum, how will they ever know differently? Nobody's going to be able to reach them there, and they'll spend their entire career contributing nothing before eventually just getting bored and leaving. 

 

TL;DR: this isn't the first time we've seen this, but we're seeing it much more now than ever before and I think the reasons for that can be addressed with some changes (namely, something like Viper's suggestion).

[Da Trifecta 1,899]

[Garsh 1,192]

What about if there was a link/button/tool-tip popup doohickey on the update player page, that directed you to the forum post that talks about how to earn TPE.  Assuming that post is in good shape and is clearly written.

[Da Trifecta 1,899]

3 minutes ago, Garsh said:

What about if there was a link/button/tool-tip popup doohickey on the update player page, that directed you to the forum post that talks about how to earn TPE.  Assuming that post is in good shape and is clearly written.

 

That's the million dollar plan right there.

[gorlab 4,321]

Yes.

[Will 4,660]

I do think we really ought to work on getting more information onto the Portal in terms of 'guides', the rulebook, staff list, etc - and directing people to that info when they create a player. I think it could be a far better and more manageable host of that type of stuff than the current setup (basically a bunch of scattered forum threads).

 

Now I don't know how much that will help with what is described in OP, but I would say that my rationale for putting it through the portal was much less about the added convenience for players and more about getting one of the most standard and frequently claimed TPE activities out of the update queue. 

[Ricer13 2,796]

I see the pros and cons from both sides. I still think it should be on the portal and that maybe more things should be moved to portal in some form. 
 

What about creating a rule that only allows the use of the practice facility button if you have already earned 6 TPE that week. It would force players to do even the simpler point tasks in order to get the free 2 TPE from practice facility.

[MexicanCow123 914]

11 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

I see the pros and cons from both sides. I still think it should be on the portal and that maybe more things should be moved to portal in some form. 
 

What about creating a rule that only allows the use of the practice facility button if you have already earned 6 TPE that week. It would force players to do even the simpler point tasks in order to get the free 2 TPE from practice facility.

Seems like a decent idea. But wouldn't we have people that would just create and not update at all. 2 TPE is better then 0.

[Ricer13 2,796]

8 minutes ago, MexicanCow123 said:

Seems like a decent idea. But wouldn't we have people that would just create and not update at all. 2 TPE is better then 0.

It is better than 0 but it would be nice to find a way to promote these practice facility players to do a little more! 

[Will 4,660]

23 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

I see the pros and cons from both sides. I still think it should be on the portal and that maybe more things should be moved to portal in some form. 
 

What about creating a rule that only allows the use of the practice facility button if you have already earned 6 TPE that week. It would force players to do even the simpler point tasks in order to get the free 2 TPE from practice facility.

 

9 minutes ago, MexicanCow123 said:

Seems like a decent idea. But wouldn't we have people that would just create and not update at all. 2 TPE is better then 0.

 

It's an interesting idea... I think rather than 6, I would maybe go for requiring literally any other TPE to be earned that week, perhaps with the exception of a welfare claim. 

 

That said, might be a little difficult to implement in practice..the non-practice facility TPE would still have to be approved before they claim PF and that could cause some timing issues.

[Gustav 6,430]

3 hours ago, Will said:

I think rather than 6, I would maybe go for requiring literally any other TPE to be earned that week, perhaps with the exception of a welfare claim. 

 

I feel like anything like this would piss off pure welfare earners. The "force people to claim PF on the forum until they hit 100 TPE" idea is better and probably won't lead to as many issues.

 

What if there were a button on the player update page that pulled up a short guide to earning with forum links to each task's area? That way we could get direct links to the forum right on the same page as the button that these newer guys are clicking every week, and with luck that would redirect some of them out to league civilization. I feel like it would help new members quite a bit in general, too, even those who know the forum exists and use it--it seems most new guys are unable to figure things out unless they're directly handed the information by their GM, and having a concise, easily reference-able list available to all in a place more obvious than one subforum out of many would be of reasonably good benefit.

[Garsh 1,192]

1 hour ago, GustavMattias said:

What if there were a button on the player update page that pulled up a short guide to earning with forum links to each task's area? That way we could get direct links to the forum right on the same page as the button that these newer guys are clicking every week, and with luck that would redirect some of them out to league civilization. I feel like it would help new members quite a bit in general, too, even those who know the forum exists and use it--it seems most new guys are unable to figure things out unless they're directly handed the information by their GM, and having a concise, easily reference-able list available to all in a place more obvious than one subforum out of many would be of reasonably good benefit.

 

Basically what i said but with more thought and words.
 

On 2/14/2020 at 10:28 PM, Garsh said:

What about if there was a link/button/tool-tip popup doohickey on the update player page, that directed you to the forum post that talks about how to earn TPE.  Assuming that post is in good shape and is clearly written.

 

[Bushito 1,945]

Forum was better