Update on SBA Partnership

[eaglesfan036 4,599]

This sounds to me more like @Molholt has something personally against the VHL and was looking for any excuse to end the partnership. I'm sure the SBA has included offensive language in either the forum or discord before and they are just being hypocrites. I would go check myself if I wasn't banned the instant I tried creating a player and becoming a member of the league

[Joe Exotic 32]

Is SBA just a basketball version of this league?

[Beketov 9,025]

6 minutes ago, Joe Exotic said:

Is SBA just a basketball version of this league?

In the most simplistic terms: yes.

[Aye my name jeff 121]

22 minutes ago, ContinentalCup036 said:

This sounds to me more like @Molholt has something personally against the VHL and was looking for any excuse to end the partnership. I'm sure the SBA has included offensive language in either the forum or discord before and they are just being hypocrites. I would go check myself if I wasn't banned the instant I tried creating a player and becoming a member of the league

Whenever that has happened it's not like they tolerated it or anything. Usually if it was a first time offense they would warn the User that's not acceptable on their site. If it happened a 2nd time itwould probably be a temporary ban, and a 3rd time would probably result in a permenant ban. 

[Big Mac 310]

37 minutes ago, Molholt said:

eh, nvm. What's done is done. 

This sounds like quiet an excuse but my knowledge on the situation is as small as my minutes.

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, Big Mac said:

This sounds like quiet an excuse but my knowledge on the situation is as small as my minutes.

He had a much larger post that he edited to avoid continuing any further drama.

[Gustav 6,407]

[fonziGG 1,068]

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

From this point forward, I am taking all credit for the Toronto Legion 3peat. It was all Zach Parechkin.

Sorry, Molholt.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

1 minute ago, DollarAndADream said:

From this point forward, I am taking all credit for the Toronto Legion 3peat. It was all Zach Parechkin.

Sorry, Molholt.

The third title was clearly Kerkko Hyvarinen though

[Beketov 9,025]

2 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

From this point forward, I am taking all credit for the Toronto Legion 3peat. It was all Zach Parechkin.

Sorry, Molholt.

We've always been at war with Eastasia

[Victor 10,940]

9 minutes ago, diamond_ace said:

The third title was clearly Kerkko Hyvarinen though

The fourth title though... oh wait, fuck Jardy. 

[hedgehog337 3,483]

18 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

From this point forward, I am taking all credit for the Toronto Legion 3peat. It was all Zach Parechkin.

Sorry, Molholt.

 

you really left out the current Riga GM like that 

 

foh 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

3 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

you really left out the current Riga GM like that 

 

foh 

This is where I throw everyone involved with those 3 cup wins under the bus.

 

Sorry.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

3 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

This is where I throw everyone involved with those 3 cup wins under the bus.

 

Sorry.

 

Brave man, hating on Wingate considering what happened with Calgary/Quebec just a few seasons before.

[Devise 4,475]

@Tate pretty much hit most of the beats I think one would bring up in regards to this situation. However I will state that I do think the "community" aspect of leagues like this is lost on lots of people. I have had some PM discussions off and on with a couple of members, some regarding some of the SBA instances and some who are members here who had concerns about the way the league is run, or to be specific, the "preferential" treatment that some members here have received. I know a certain Builder got inducted recently that rubbed people the wrong way.

 

I feel this should be clarified. Nobody, let me say that again, NOBODY here makes any decision that says that the work one person has done for this site is on any higher pedestal than the work anyone else has done for this site. Period. It takes a lot, and I mean a lot for a members contributions to this league to be disregarded to the point that had they of contributed to the league to be a builder, that we would take that away from them.

 

What makes this entire situation difficult and this has been the case a few times, is that we have members in prominent positions who have had some tantrums, some outbursts, some issues. The thing is they'd be the first members to indicate that they in fact did have these outbursts. There seems to be an inclination from the SBA and specifically @Molholt that any transgressions from members here extends beyond their person and instantly becomes a reflection of the league. Framing this as such gives them the perfect grounds to argue "so and so shouldn't be in that position." You don't get to come in and take away the hard work these people have done. Josh and Victor were named? You mean Josh the man who has helped Will in regards to the Portal work and is a huge contributor here since returning? You mean Victor, whose contributions to this league do not remotely need to be justified to anyone with a history here. If you want to argue that these people have personalities that you dislike fine, I won't stop you. Nobody gets along, nobody agree's. But it's going to take a lot more than an outburst for collective management here to simply disown the people who have spent hours upon hours of their real life time building this community. 

 

I don't know why people can't seem to grasp this aspect of sim leagues. They are community built, community driven, for the community. It's literally all about community. But then again, the fact that Molholt you would bring up things like selling the league and talk about a larger partnership under one umbrella shows how skewed, in my opinion, your perspective has gotten.  You want to be able to tell members they can't do jobs because they don't fit a personality spectrum? Find whatever justification you want but don't pretend that you weren't basically giving us a choice between literally forcing members out of roles they've earned because you simply dislike them, or losing affiliation. Because that's exactly what it was. Trying to strong arm community members here to fit an ideal partnership, and then pulling what is a logical affiliation system to punish members who like to hang out in both leagues is as petty as it gets. It's your decision to be that childish, not ours. 

 

/Devise post.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Devise

[gorlab 4,321]

1 hour ago, Devise said:

@Tate pretty much hit most of the beats I think one would bring up in regards to this situation. However I will state that I do think the "community" aspect of leagues like this is lost on lots of people. I have had some PM discussions off and on with a couple of members, some regarding some of the SBA instances and some who are members here who had concerns about the way the league is run, or to be specific, the "preferential" treatment that some members here have received. I know a certain Builder got inducted recently that rubbed people the wrong way.

 

I feel this should be clarified. Nobody, let me say that again, NOBODY here makes any decision that says that the work one person has done for this site is on any higher pedestal than the work anyone else has done for this site. Period. It takes a lot, and I mean a lot for a members contributions to this league to be disregarded to the point that had they of contributed to the league to be a builder, that we would take that away from them.

 

What makes this entire situation difficult and this has been the case a few times, is that we have members in prominent positions who have had some tantrums, some outbursts, some issues. The thing is they'd be the first members to indicate that they in fact did have these outbursts. There seems to be an inclination from the SBA and specifically @Molholt that any transgressions from members here extends beyond their person and instantly becomes a reflection of the league. Framing this as such gives them the perfect grounds to argue "so and so shouldn't be in that position." You don't get to come in and take away the hard work these people have done. Josh and Victor were named? You mean Josh the man who has helped Will in regards to the Portal work and is a huge contributor here since returning? You mean Victor, whose contributions to this league do not remotely need to be justified to anyone with a history here. If you want to argue that these people have personalities that you dislike fine, I won't stop you. Nobody gets along, nobody agree's. But it's going to take a lot more than an outburst for collective management here to simply disown the people who have spent hours upon hours of their real life time building this community. 

 

I don't know why people can't seem to grasp this aspect of sim leagues. They are community built, community driven, for the community. It's literally all about community. But then again, the fact that Molholt you would bring up things like selling the league and talk about a larger partnership under one umbrella shows how skewed, in my opinion, your perspective has gotten.  You want to be able to tell members they can't do jobs because they don't fit a personality spectrum? Find whatever justification you want but don't pretend that you weren't basically giving us a choice between literally forcing members out of roles they've earned because you simply dislike them, or losing affiliation. Because that's exactly what it was. Trying to strong arm community members here to fit an ideal partnership, and then pulling what is a logical affiliation system to punish members who like to hang out in both leagues is as petty as it gets. It's your decision to be that childish, not ours. 

 

/Devise post.

 

 

Not to make light of a serious conversation, but this is actually one paragraph too many to be an official devise post.

[Devise 4,475]

2 minutes ago, gorlab said:

 

 

Not to make light of a serious conversation, but this is actually one paragraph too many to be an official devise post.

 

[Beaviss 4,957]

6 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

 

Have you ever had a single comment be an entire forum page before?

[Devise 4,475]

4 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

Have you ever had a single comment be an entire forum page before?

 

Only in my dreams. Or nightmares, haven't really decided yet. 

[Molholt 2,185]

1 hour ago, Devise said:

ramble

 

To be clear, though I have not been in the discussions (I have stayed out of them since November), Beketov has been told on multiple occasions that in no way is the SBA suggesting, demanding, or asking for anyone to be fired. 

 

Much less Victor lol. 

[Devise 4,475]

2 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

To be clear, though I have not been in the discussions (I have stayed out of them since November), Beketov has been told on multiple occasions that in no way is the SBA suggesting, demanding, or asking for anyone to be fired. 

 

Much less Victor lol. 

 

"For the record, because you ask for details when this gets brought up every now and again, things like members of your staff and admins (Victor, Josh, etc.) shitting on SBAO a couple of days ago publicly."

 

That was the specific quote in question. You name dropped two members as "shitting on your league" because they had personal criticisms of your league. Forgetting of course that members, as free willed human individuals are allowed to you know, speak for themselves without it being a reflection on the VHL. That alone is enough to warrant no longer having an affiliation with us? 

 

I mean you can pretend for the optics that you weren't telling us to get rid of members specifically from roles because you never used those words exactly. If that is the hill you'd like to die on, be my guest. But in no uncertain terms we were told on countless occasion's by you and representatives from your BoD that while we had members who targeted your league, or whom practiced in conduct the SBA considers unfit in prominent positions that affiliation couldn't be considered. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Tate said:

**This message is solely for Molholt

 

Truly sad and disappointing to hear of the news. I have much love and respect for a lot of the community at the SBA but it’s very clear that @Molholt lack the maturity and understanding to be able to resolve a situation and move it forward.

 

If you think that being able to control what people say and do is the answer to resolving the problem you’re solely mistaken. People will always make mistakes and it’s about educating them so that they can be better the next time, or at least strive to do better. Listen, I’m the guy who put up a stink about Beketov on this site and you yourself participated in the pushback on my argument, telling me how hard it is to be a commissioner, and yet you’re more than happy to point the finger at him and say that Beks not doing good enough.
 

Members who are disliked by the SBA community or who were apart of the fallout are still fundamentally good people. My grandfather was a racist man, but he was also very loving, does that mean he was a bad person? People go through various levels of maturity as they grow and they learn that words can hurt, or what ignorance is. They learn it by talking it out and listening to the people they’ve hurt. People will always criticize others, whether it is to their face or in private. Just as you have done many times. Because it is human. 

 

I’m really proud of how Beketov and the staff have handled the SBA fallout, and furthermore I’m proud to be a member of the VHL. I don’t agree with a lot of what VHL members say or do, but I also know that a lot of them don’t agree with me either. But that’s the beautiful thing about life, we’re all different and yet we’re all the same. 
 

Everyone who participated in SIM leagues share a passion for sports and creativity. We are all brothers and sisters in this. We love to see our players do well, we love it when something we create is a hit or popular. We love to have fun with each other. 
 

Your statement on the fact that there is no future partnership has shown that you still have a bit of growing up to do before you can call yourself a true leader. What you’ve done at the SBA is truly remarkable, and you should be proud of yourself for it. But to take the stance you have today is foolish, and short sighted. But don’t you worry, in the end we will forgive you for it. Because we understand that people make mistakes, and because we’re family, we still love them.

 

Rest easy for now Molholt, get a good sleep and have a nice shower. Then come on back and sit by the fire, we have marshmallows waiting for you. 

 

 

Well shit. @Tate grew up right before my eyes. He so big now

Edited April 8, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

@Devise 2024?

[emidas 82]

12 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

"For the record, because you ask for details when this gets brought up every now and again, things like members of your staff and admins (Victor, Josh, etc.) shitting on SBAO a couple of days ago publicly."

 

That was the specific quote in question. You name dropped two members as "shitting on your league" because they had personal criticisms of your league. Forgetting of course that members, as free willed human individuals are allowed to you know, speak for themselves without it being a reflection on the VHL. That alone is enough to warrant no longer having an affiliation with us? 

 

I mean you can pretend for the optics that you weren't telling us to get rid of members specifically from roles because you never used those words exactly. If that is the hill you'd like to die on, be my guest. But in no uncertain terms we were told on countless occasion's by you and representatives from your BoD that while we had members who targeted your league, or whom practiced in conduct the SBA considers unfit in prominent positions that affiliation couldn't be considered. 

 

Here are some very quick excerpts from DMs with Bek. This has been the main line of communication between our leagues since November. I am only including the pertinent parts here as I don't want anyone to feel called out, or fingers pointed.

January 6, 2020 - January 7, 2020:

 

E: " I would 100% never expect you to fire anyone based on how our BOD feels. That's just a silly precedent."
Bek: "Obviously you do recognize that I’m not going to fire someone who does amazing work for us because your BOD doesn’t like him; just as I’d never expect you to do so though. It wouldn’t be right."

 

As you can see, I rightfully state we don't expect anyone to get fired based on how our BOD feels about members. Bek acknowledges this. Our stance gains even more clarity in our next correspondence.

 

February 16, 2020:

 

E: "I have mentioned you reaching out to our BOD and our Admins, but I will be frank when I say I do not expect anything to change so long as that behavior still exists from the top down."

 

Again, nothing about firing. Just mentioning that we don't want to partner while that behavior comes from the top.

 

E: "Our BOD is not asking you to fire anyone - they are merely saying they don't want anything to do with an affiliation where an Admin speaks so poorly of us, and says the things he does."

 

Again, re-iterating we don't want anyone fired, merely the behavior to stop, especially from the top.

 

I have been the one handling correspondence between the leagues on our side (to Bek), and quite frankly, I'm a little irritated seeing what I say to Bek being misrepresented so openly in the VHL. At no point have we come out and stated, "fire this person". In fact, as you can see (and as Bek has acknowledged), we want the behavior from the top to change, not the person(s) fired.

 

I have stayed out of this and most back and forth between leagues to keep a peaceful line open between Bek and myself. But I am really, really, really sick of seeing this get misrepresented and the general member base of the VHL lied to about this. 

 

This will be my only post in this thread. Any further correspondence can be handled in the PM Chain or DMs.