DMaximus 1,046 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Beketov said: Of note simming isn’t something we can just hand anyone. Doing it involves having access to every league file from every season in the server AND all the backups. 4 keystrokes could delete the entire league. So yes, we can look at the process but there are reasons I don’t care for the “just hire someone willing” argument because there is a lot of trust involved. I'm sure there can be permissions set to prevent that from happening. And if there's not more than 3 or 4 people who can be trusted in this league, then we have some larger issues already. Kachur 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,033 Posted February 22, 2021 Commissioner Share Posted February 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, DMaximus said: I'm sure there can be permissions set to prevent that from happening. And if there's not more than 3 or 4 people who can be trusted in this league, then we have some larger issues already. Not saying there isn’t and not saying that it isn’t an option. Just pointing that out that the usual “anyone can do this” argument doesn’t hold a ton of weight as far as trust is concerned. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kachur 112 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Beketov said: Not saying there isn’t and not saying that it isn’t an option. Just pointing that out that the usual “anyone can do this” argument doesn’t hold a ton of weight as far as trust is concerned. neither does the Old man cant cause reason argument. just saying Red 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,033 Posted February 22, 2021 Commissioner Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, ATST said: neither does the Old man cant cause reason argument. just saying 1. I gave my full reasoning as to why doing it live is a pain for me. 2. I openly said I’ll look into a way to make it easier. Mr_Hatter and bigAL 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kachur 112 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Beketov said: 1. I gave my full reasoning as to why doing it live is a pain for me. 2. I openly said I’ll look into a way to make it easier. that was mostly talking about Jericho's argeuments. i read what you said and I get it. Team View is ass. Red 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eynhallow 412 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, Beketov said: 1. I gave my full reasoning as to why doing it live is a pain for me. 2. I openly said I’ll look into a way to make it easier. I don't see why you have to continue to defend yourself. If I can figure out where you are coming from, I am pretty sure that it must be pretty obvious to everyone else !!! KaleebtheMighty, Rayzor_7 and Red 2 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePerfectNut 563 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Only commenting to bee cemented in history as well. I`m not the one causing drama for once Mr_Hatter 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahma 1,431 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Live streaming the sims from now on, what's the problem with that? I don't see why we should not live stream sims. Red 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocrepony 1,216 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) im not even gonna bother reading all of this Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler jk i am Edited February 22, 2021 by GrittyIsKing09 Devise and diacope 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator frescoelmo 1,276 Posted February 22, 2021 Head Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2021 Friendly reminder to keep it PG The Fong Hungers Phil 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garsh 1,192 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jtv123 said: I`m not the one causing drama for once Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eynhallow 412 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyOuellet 56 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Ohhhhh this is why you got banned from SBA. This thread looks like a debate on Covid-19 by old french canadien. (Trust me, it's not great) tcookie, Spartan, Kelsier and 2 others 5 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocrepony 1,216 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Gorlab, you left out all the stuff about teams, overall point fluctuation throughout the league and such. As someone already said, he was 2,4,1 in points in S75, S74 and S73. You only looked at Lahtinen's points. now, i realize that other people have already said that, but I just want to make it clear too. Also, this is an internet hockey league. i feel like, yes, even if bek did rig it, why? sure, lead the league in points or whatever, and I know nothing about STHS or how long it takes, but other people have already said how long it would take to resim to get a good sim, so I would rather let STHS take it's course than spend a bunch of time to have maybe 1-2 points more per sim. About streaming, i think it should be optional. I understand the appeal to some people, to make sure no one is/was cheating but it seems like a bit of a hassle to people. Edited February 22, 2021 by GrittyIsKing09 Eynhallow and Red 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho 917 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, ATST said: that was mostly talking about Jericho's argeuments. i read what you said and I get it. Team View is ass. A few people did a better job of making that point than I did, the overall sentiment was that things are a lot more complicated on the back end than they appear and a bunch of people had some takes that assumed otherwise. Also I'm now having an early life crisis that we consider late 20s and early 30s to be old men, but I digress. I was feeling like Dennis in the Sunny episode about whether science was real and everyone was looking at Mac's argument and putting themselves on the fence. As I said before there is totally merit in the discussion as long as it's coming from a place of good faith and well reasoned argument. Most people on that side of the argument have been doing that. The original post was anything but. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsday 4,130 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 There's a phrase I'm surprised I haven't seen used yet here: Correlation is not causation. It is data that draws a logical conclusuon, but logical is not always sound. As many before have mentioned, there are a lot of variables season to season that affect a player's production. Precisely zero of that was taken into account here, and when you combine that with the credibility of a member like Beketov, it's an argument that ultimately falls flat on its face. Live sims aren't a terrible idea, although for me, it's not for transparency, it's for the protection of the simmer. There's a lot of work that goes into that job, and it's often thankless. Add accusations like this, and it's even worse. Live sims would certainly add more work, but I believe that protecting those hard-working members from being dragged like this would make it worth it. tcookie, Baozi, bigAL and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilHCorny 55 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Here’s how I see it. Let’s just live sim. If you don’t want to live sim than you shouldn’t be simming. I’m not here to question anyone’s integrity but ending this argument is as simple as live simming. This shouldn’t be too much of a problem and everyone needs to stop acting like petty kindergarteners who can’t agree on anything. Live simming doesn’t sound hard and if you can’t make four clicks, then I don’t know how you can even sim. Nobody’s integrity will be questioned with live simming, if it’s streamed and people can see that there is integrity. People declining to live sim just makes people question what is going on and they deserve transparency. So give it to them. Then we can all stop with the freaking drama. frescoelmo, Josh and Red 1 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka 228 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 You know, now that I think of it, Cal Conway has been trash in 100% of @Beketov seasons. Check this: Another Player Conway That's a huge difference in save percentage and goals against between me and another player when Bek simmed. And to make it worse, I went 0-6 this season with Beketov simming after winning 42% of my starts in my CAREER. HUGE falloff. SAD! mediocrepony, tcookie and Josh 2 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,033 Posted February 22, 2021 Commissioner Share Posted February 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Shaka said: You know, now that I think of it, Cal Conway has been trash in 100% of @Beketov seasons. Check this: Another Player Conway That's a huge difference in save percentage and goals against between me and another player when Bek simmed. And to make it worse, I went 0-6 this season with Beketov simming after winning 42% of my starts in my CAREER. HUGE falloff. SAD! Shit, I’ve been had. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eynhallow 412 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Muahahahaha !! Sorry Cal @Shaka all of us rookie VHLers didn't defend you very well during those starts. Shaka 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 For anyone who thinks I made this thread to 'drag' Beketov. That is not the goal or aim. I'm not saying he's cheating (well, I am because I personally believe he is, but obviously have no 100% way to prove this) but the intent of the thread is to change how we do things so questions/accusations like this can't arise. Thanks for everyone who's been supportive of adopting a change. Everyone else, meet me in the discord. Im hungry for another temp mute. Kachur, Red, Banackock and 1 other 4 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka 228 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, gorlab said: Obviously have no 100% way to prove this Depends how far you're willing to go. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kachur 112 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Jericho said: A few people did a better job of making that point than I did, the overall sentiment was that things are a lot more complicated on the back end than they appear and a bunch of people had some takes that assumed otherwise. Also I'm now having an early life crisis that we consider late 20s and early 30s to be old men, but I digress. I was feeling like Dennis in the Sunny episode about whether science was real and everyone was looking at Mac's argument and putting themselves on the fence. As I said before there is totally merit in the discussion as long as it's coming from a place of good faith and well reasoned argument. Most people on that side of the argument have been doing that. The original post was anything but. Regardless of the OP there needs to be a change. we all agree on that I think. but when people are giving legitimate ideas all we get back is "we dont trust" or "old people = busy/cant" and none of those are helpful to trying to ease this situation. it comes off as deflecting. I get it wont happen right away but a simple "hey we are taking the ideas to heart" instead of pushing them off might go a long way. that's all I'm coming from. Red 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkemptCL4PTP 86 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 What if we changed simmers halfway through the season? Kachur, Eynhallow and gorlab 1 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banackock 8,062 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 stevo, Kachur and mediocrepony 1 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/99762-time-for-a-change-in-simming/page/6/#findComment-825717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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