v.2 1,406 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (I'm sure @Victorwill love this thread.) I think it's time to get rid of trivia. While the positives that come from it are teaching members about some of the history/records/HOFers of the league, it's a bit of a cake walk in terms of justifiably earning TPE. It's known that everyone just "cheats" and waits for the answers to be posted in the discord LRs, with maybe a handful of members doing some actual research and digging for the correct answers each week. This was very evident about a month ago when practically everyone only earned 1 TPE for an incorrect answer. Another issue (and I am in no way pinning any blame on Victor or anyone) is that when trivia is late, delayed, or in the off season, members get stuck in 2TPE limbo unsure of when they can earn the final 2 capped on the week. My suggestions for a replacement include the following: - Allow for 4 reviews a week (I personally hate reviews so this is not my #1 fix) - Allow for 2 .com's per week, whether its 2 GFX, a graphic and an article, etc. Whatever adds up to 4 capped .com TPE. - To preserve the purpose of trivia, allow members to submit a "History fact" or some "League Lore" for 2 TPE. Essentially this would be each individual member who does this providing their own trivia style question and answer based on some homework they've done themselves on the forum or portal. Ultimately I'm just trying to drum up some discussion here and see what some other sentiments toward this are. Seabass, JardyB10, Ledge and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,405 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, v.2 said: - Allow for 2 .com's per week, whether its 2 GFX, a graphic and an article, etc. Whatever adds up to 4 capped .com TPE. This is allowed actually, they just can't be 2 articles or 2 graphics. You can mix and match 2 out of the three in each week. JardyB10, v.2, Ledge and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,428 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 I'm cool with allowing more reviews in any case--as long as standards for those are kept at an acceptable level. As for trivia, the thread seems to have been hidden for some reason (to which I say LITERALLY 1984 and LET US HAVE OUR FORUM DRAMA), but around January-February of last year sharing answers to trivia questions was made illegal for like...a day and a half before that announcement was retracted. Needless to say, it didn't go over very well. I wasn't against it at the time and even though I'm on team "let the people have their trivia" these days, I agree that it's a bit too easy. There's no real way to get around that, though, aside from nuking trivia entirely or banning answer sharing again, neither of which I'd personally rather have over the current system. It's not as rampant as it used to be--there was a time when half the league got their answers either directly or indirectly through me because @Esso2264 would just post them everywhere after I did. bigAL 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,946 Posted October 6, 2021 Admin Share Posted October 6, 2021 I haven't read but I agree completely, please get rid of it I can't. Dil, v.2, Ledge and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rory 1,916 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 or get someone that cares to run it lol v.2 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ricer13 2,796 Posted October 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2021 I’ll run it Spaz 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STZ 5,360 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Let’s just make Practice Facility worth 3 Red, v.2, Ledge and 4 others 2 4 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlamb 1,326 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Trivia a few times a season, and it's uncapped. Also we need more capped tasks reviews suck and are all the same Ledge and v.2 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,405 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, GustavMattias said: as long as standards for those are kept at an acceptable level. Unfortunately standards for reviews are basically set on an updater by updater basis. These are our current "standards": Reviewing should now consist of at least 1 Constructive Paragraph for 1 Capped TPE each. You may do up to 2 Reviews Weekly and they must include a score out of 10 on top of the constructive criticism that they would normally contain. So "1 constructive paragraph" is pretty vague, and I personally interpret it as 3-4 sentences that should be at least 100 words. However, I drop it a bit to just 2-3 full sentences of somewhat relevant feedback/criticism because very few people write 100+ words for reviews. However, I think that there should be word counts for reviews, because we have word counts for just about everything else. Media spots must be at least 500 words, VHL.com articles are 150 minimum (I think it should be 200), so the trend seems to be about 70-80 words per 1 tpe. Press conferences are also super lax, we're just enforcing "full sentences as responses" as the requirement. Overall though, I'd rather see the league push people towards creating more content than having 5+ reviews saying the same thing on an article from 2 weeks ago. rory 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ricer13 2,796 Posted October 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2021 I would happily take over running Trivia to keep it going. rory and Spaz 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,760 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better. On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out. It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely. It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while. DMaximus, SpicyGecko, v.2 and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,890 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Oh sure, axe it now that Peace is actually the longest-serving Toronto GM. Convenient. Victor 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator frescoelmo 1,276 Posted October 6, 2021 Head Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2021 bring back grading JardyB10 and Ahma 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ricer13 2,796 Posted October 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2021 37 minutes ago, Dil said: I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better. On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out. It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely. It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while. This is big brain Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColeMrtz 574 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Spartan said: they just can't be 2 articles or 2 graphics Is that part even enforced? I've seen people claim two .com articles in a week before Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,405 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Just now, ColeMrtz said: Is that part even enforced? I've seen people claim two .com articles in a week before Mistakes happen on the updater end, but we do review player update logs from time to time and revoke updates if we see stuff like that. If you see recent examples of it, it's best to let an updater know directly! ColeMrtz 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_ace 3,112 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 While I agree that trivia when gotten from a shared answer list is too easy, I would also posit that trivia when finding the answers yourself is the hardest TPE on the site by a mile. While Dil's idea would get trivia back to its original purpose (and fair enough, if that's what the league deems necessary) I'd argue having to sit and actually find the answers every week would burn people out far quicker than they realize. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,757 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Similar to STZ, it was virtually free TPE anyway. Make PF worth 2 and vhl. Com submissions worth 3,same as the affiliate leagues. Did anyone really crave learning about the VHL on a weekly basis? Besides, the answer was usually "Scotty Campbell". solas and v.2 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nykonax 1,564 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Dil said: I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better. On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out. It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely. It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while. idk if its still a thing but you also got 1 uncapped tpe for submitting a trivia question. Could add that to the portal too where like x times per season you can submit a question on the portal (with the correct answer, how to find it, and like fake options) and the trivia head could approve/deny it. Dil 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,026 Posted October 6, 2021 Commissioner Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, diamond_ace said: I would also posit that trivia when finding the answers yourself is the hardest TPE on the site by a mile I’d argue that’s an exaggeration. People assume it’s harder than it is and don’t bother trying since someone will be around with the answer soon. There’s the odd question here and there that’s tough but otherwise there’s only a few select places where the answers exist so they aren’t hard to find. 9/10 times you don’t need to leave the HoF forum. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.2 1,406 Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, BOOM said: Similar to STZ, it was virtually free TPE anyway. Make PF worth 2 and vhl. Com submissions worth 3,same as the affiliate leagues. Did anyone really crave learning about the VHL on a weekly basis? Besides, the answer was usually "Scotty Campbell". Best suggestion I’ve seen yet imo… increase the .coms to 3 per (but obvi require more words for articles, and more effort than just a logo swap for gfx). Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garsh 1,192 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, v.2 said: Best suggestion I’ve seen yet imo… increase the .coms to 3 per (but obvi require more words for articles, and more effort than just a logo swap for gfx). Is there any worry that if we get to high standard for the gfx that we push people out who are trying to learn and still want to get something even if it's not the full 6? I actually don't see a stickied post on guidelines in the supplemental gfx area like there are for most other point tasks, but I feel like we need to have a pretty open bottom end on graphics for the supplemental task. Edit: Wanted to add I don't think we should get rid of trivia Edited October 7, 2021 by Garsh Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 No reason to axe it - having to actually work/earn your TPE died in like 2014. If we're going to keep everything easy to earn, at least trivia makes you learn interesting things. mattyIceman 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Making tasks harder is not a good idea for retention rory 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nykonax 1,564 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 48 minutes ago, Garsh said: Is there any worry that if we get to high standard for the gfx that we push people out who are trying to learn and still want to get something even if it's not the full 6? I actually don't see a stickied post on guidelines in the supplemental gfx area like there are for most other point tasks, but I feel like we need to have a pretty open bottom end on graphics for the supplemental task. Edit: Wanted to add I don't think we should get rid of trivia vhl.com is just smaller stuff like jersey swaps/player cards, i pretty much approve any .com graphic especially if its from new people, even on the main graphic pts im lenient if they're new, but obviously need to show SOME improvement over time Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/109460-its-time-to-axe-trivia/#findComment-877844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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