Time for a change in simming

[efiug 320]

47 minutes ago, Jericho said:

Ok let's entertain this logic line. So the way a simmer would cheat would be to trial and error the results until they came out favorably to them. So if they stream it in theory they couldn't do that right? Well if we're giving them the infinite time you seem to think a bunch of dudes in their thirties have, what's to stop them from recording the fake sim and then streaming that and acting like it's live? You could ask them to do it at a time where people are around so they have to interact with chat but now you're dictating which hours the sim can be to people who already have adult-level commitments and may or may not be available at those times 7 days a week.

 

The "Well we can eliminate 100% doubt if we add these restrictions for things we've never had an issue with" is the same argument people make with voter ID laws for voter fraud, and those get squashed for similar reasons.

"Well if we're giving them the infinite time you seem to think a bunch of dudes in their thirties have"
we aren't giving them infinite time and i have no idea why you have the idea in your head that streaming the sim would take much longer than how long it already takes to sim already

"what's to stop them from recording the fake sim and then streaming that and acting like it's live?"
The fact that that takes a lot more effort than just streaming the sim normally, you said it yourself the simmers are too busy to click a few buttons so they surely aren't capable of doing this.

"You could ask them to do it at a time where people are around so they have to interact with chat but now you're dictating which hours the sim can be to people who already have adult-level commitments and may or may not be available at those times 7 days a week."
There are plenty of other ways to make it verifiably authentic like having a clock or timer showing, and we don't need to set dedicated times since there is almost always members up at all hours of the day.

"Well we can eliminate 100% doubt if we add these restrictions for things we've never had an issue with"
I 100% have an issue with this and would have from the start if I knew that streams weren't simmed, and these restrictions are so light that if you can't follow them then you can get replaced as a simmer. This isn't some legal right like voting this is something that we all do fun and there should be a basic level of trust between members and the fact that simmers don't want to give us a simple measure of letting us verify on our own the results of sims if we feel the need is ridiculous.

I personally believe that its absurd to think that someone would put all the work in to make their player better, but the only reason this post could even be made was because there is no basic level of trust between the simmer and everyone else and the fact that its so easy to implement one makes this a non issue plain and simple.

[Jericho 917]

Just now, Sonnet said:

 

Just...wanted to be sure here, you're not referring to me, right? Because that quote is exactly what I'm saying.

No Gorlab got salty and tagged me in gen chat and then when he lost 3 arguments he went to taking shots at my wife. I disagree with you but you haven't been arguing in bad faith. I have respect for your take because you didn't come in full of bad faith.

[BOOM 8,787]

If sim manipulation WAS proven, would a permaban be the punishment? It would have to be, right?

 

Not referencing this post, just a general question as to the perceived seriousness of the offense.

[gregreg 930]

This is maybe the most ridiculous post of all time. It’s so bad it’s laughable. 

[diacope 1,696]

Smoke a bowl gorlab, smoke a bowl. I like the discussion as well and this doesn't need to get personal, come on guy

[KC15 340]

In the PBE, we live stream every single sim on Twitch and we sim on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays - all at about the same time each of those days.  We have a whole team of simmers - enough people willing to spend that amount of time and it is the crowning jewel of the league.  Now, OOTP is a far, far, far superior engine compared to Simon and a pleasure to watch as there is an actual 3-D action component, but not much to be done about that in the hockey world.

Not sure why "it's too much work, just trust me" is really acceptable.  It would not be in the PBE.  There would be a revolt if someone suggested we just sim behind the scenes with one person and no one looking on and then publish it.

Like many others here, I'm not accusing anyone of foul play.  Doing the sim out in the open protects the simmer as much as all the other players in the league.  

[Jericho 917]

Just now, Sonnet said:

 

Ohhh, gotchya gotchya. I'm not in gen chat- I would have never known LMAO

 

Carry on, mbmb

I don't think I'll go back, that place is a cesspool. A special someone got angry and decided to get wrecked in real time.

[Jericho 917]

Just now, gregreg said:

This is maybe the most ridiculous post of all time. It’s so bad it’s laughable. 

You clearly forgot the 43 page Kesler and I did back in the day.

 

Or half of the Seattle-NY arguments in the 20s.

 

Our edgy youth!

[Spartan 4,437]

2 minutes ago, Jericho said:

I don't think I'll go back, that place is a cesspool. A special someone got angry and decided to get wrecked in real time.

should join the Las Vegas server and hang out with chill folks

[solas 1,951]

2 minutes ago, BOOM said:

If sim manipulation WAS proven, would a permaban be the punishment? It would have to be, right?

 

Not referencing this post, just a general question as to the perceived seriousness of the offense.

I would assume so.  Although I feel like it’d be hard to truly determine someone was rigging unless they just admitted it.

[Beaviss 4,958]

This could be the start of a legendary thread

[gregreg 930]

1 minute ago, Jericho said:

You clearly forgot the 43 page Kesler and I did back in the day.

 

Or half of the Seattle-NY arguments in the 20s.

 

Our edgy youth!

Those were just as dumb but Golab has been around long enough for this post to be the dumbest 

[Ledge 1,131]

I'm not going to pretend I know what's the deal here. I don't know crap about simming and how it can be modified. But what I've taken from reading this shitshow is that live simming isn't too big of an ask.

[Josh 1,671]

1 minute ago, Beaviss said:

This could be the start of a legendary thread

[fonziGG 1,068]

Honestly, I'm only commenting to be cemented in history.

Edited February 22, 2021 by fonziGG

[BOOM 8,787]

Fair enough.

[Lefty_S 91]

[Peace 1,542]

2 hours ago, Sonnet said:

 

Yeah, I want to give every last benefit of the doubt that I possibly can, but that kind of a trend isn't something to fuck around with.

 

If there's nothing to hide, there's no reason not to livestream and archive the sims. Doing so would add literally add four clicks to the process of simming:

• 2 clicks to double click OBS
• 1 click to "Start Streaming"
• 1 click to "Stop Streaming"

If something like this is even a remote concern (as it was in the past when Devise's Toronto teams were popping off in the playoffs, but he had no problem livestreaming once concerns were raised), then we should be doing everything in our power to make sure things are as fair as possible.

 

Shit, maybe people will even learn a thing or two from watching STHS streams to knock out a bit of that training headache.

Preach it, Sonnet. 

I agree 100%. 

OBS is criminally easy to use IMHO. Hardest part is linking it to a twitch broadcast key if all you're going to do is stream your desktop.

[Devise 4,475]

Before I get to what I want to add to this thread in proper, I just want to say; framing any sort of legitimate argument or criticism about the the transparency of the simming process in the manner that Gorlab did here is simply mean spirited. Beketov has the utmost confidence of the simming team, the Blue Team, the BoG and the majority of this community. Framing his stats relative to seasons simmed without factoring in as Jericho mentioned so much other data, including team competition relative in a divisional era no less; is just a sandbagging. He further sandbags when one of his "solutions" is "Remove Beketov." I wanted to make this stance clear, because I feel that expressing belief that we should be live simming on the regular is in no way related to an implication that anyone, especially Beketov was rigging. Crossing the line into the territory Gorlab did is basically an attack on Beketovs character as a member as far as I'm concerned. Which is odd because I don't think Gorlab was being personal, he has no stake in many of the seasons when Beks players performed well. But the framing of his argument here is very personal, it attacks the entire credibility of Bek as a simmer and I do not in any way support that. 

To the subject of live simming. I am not against it personally, I have indicated to the Staff and others once I return from my vacation I'd be fine doing it every season. But I do not speak for the entire simming staff and I know many others including non simmers that feel this is an unnecessary tack on. Gathering the communities opinion on what they'd like to see with this, and making an overall informed decision on livesimming yay or nay for the regular season would probably be the best course of action. 

[omgitshim 902]

1 minute ago, Peace said:

Preach it, Sonnet. 

I agree 100%. 

OBS is criminally easy to use IMHO. Hardest part is linking it to a twitch broadcast key if all you're going to do is stream your desktop.

 

These days you don't even need OBS, just do an at-here in discord, jump into a voice channel and stream through that.

[Esso2264 774]

LINE UP TIME

 

Aloe Dear-Chris Hylands-Taro Tsujimoto

Onde Sandstorm-Dakota Lamb-John Leclair II

Red Lite-Timothy Brown-Guy Lesieur

Frank Funk Jr-Cabe McJake-Markus Nygren

 

Alex Letang-Randy Marsh

Hulk Hogan Jr-Matty Socks

Muff Beav-Tim Waters babyyyy

 

Jean Pierre Camus

Doug Dimmadome

Edited February 22, 2021 by Esso2264

[Peace 1,542]

3 minutes ago, omgitshim said:

 

These days you don't even need OBS, just do an at-here in discord, jump into a voice channel and stream through that.

I guess you could do that too, but Discord doesn't save the history of the sim like Twitch would.

 

Or YouTube.

YouTube would work well. 

[Red 499]

1 minute ago, Esso2264 said:

LINE UP TIME

 

Aloe Dear-Chris Hylands-Taro Tsujimoto

Onde Sandstorm-Dakota Lamb-John Leclair II

Red Lite-Timothy Brown-Guy Lesieur

Frank Funk Jr-Cabe McJake-Markus Nygren

 

Alex Letang-Randy Marsh

Hulk Hogan Jr-Matty Socks

Muff Beav-Cowboy Prout

 

Jean Pierre Camus

Doug Dimmadome

idk what this is or what this for but i like it

Edited February 22, 2021 by RedSus

[Jericho 917]

6 minutes ago, Devise said:

Before I get to what I want to add to this thread in proper, I just want to say; framing any sort of legitimate argument or criticism about the the transparency of the simming process in the manner that Gorlab did here is simply mean spirited. Beketov has the utmost confidence of the simming team, the Blue Team, the BoG and the majority of this community. Framing his stats relative to seasons simmed without factoring in as Jericho mentioned so much other data, including team competition relative in a divisional era no less; is just a sandbagging. He further sandbags when one of his "solutions" is "Remove Beketov." I wanted to make this stance clear, because I feel that expressing belief that we should be live simming on the regular is in no way related to an implication that anyone, especially Beketov was rigging. Crossing the line into the territory Gorlab did is basically an attack on Beketovs character as a member as far as I'm concerned. Which is odd because I don't think Gorlab was being personal, he has no stake in many of the seasons when Beks players performed well. But the framing of his argument here is very personal, it attacks the entire credibility of Bek as a simmer and I do not in any way support that. 

To the subject of live simming. I am not against it personally, I have indicated to the Staff and others once I return from my vacation I'd be fine doing it every season. But I do not speak for the entire simming staff and I know many others including non simmers that feel this is an unnecessary tack on. Gathering the communities opinion on what they'd like to see with this, and making an overall informed decision on livesimming yay or nay for the regular season would probably be the best course of action. 

 

Too short didn't read. Needs a third paragraph.

 

Jk this is actually a much better summation of the point I was trying to make.

[Peace 1,542]

3 minutes ago, Esso2264 said:

LINE UP TIME

 

Aloe Dear-Chris Hylands-Taro Tsujimoto

Onde Sandstorm-Dakota Lamb-John Leclair II

Red Lite-Timothy Brown-Guy Lesieur

Frank Funk Jr-Cabe McJake-Markus Nygren

 

Alex Letang-Randy Marsh

Hulk Hogan Jr-Matty Socks

Muff Beav-Cowboy Prout

 

Jean Pierre Camus

Doug Dimmadome

Pain-Longing-For
Success-Missed-The

Damn-Playoffs-Again
Need-To-Do

Better-Well
Get-Them
Next-Time

Maybe
Ihope