S68 Referendum: Unban boubabi

[Advantage 2,891]

2 hours ago, Green said:

 

Love you too. Its not just a No out of spite, but i prefer an environment where I come to have fun without people constantly fighting, arguing and taking that away. Its the same reason why im glad another guy is gone (without ban though) as it was just impossible to not get in an argument himself... 

 

But to call people losers based on a vote is even for you to easy...

Yeah..fuck @JardyB10!!

[Advantage 2,891]

2 hours ago, gorlab said:

 

I just tried to choose the least discriminatory word that came to mind. Anybody can be a loser, black/white/yellow/brown/straight/gay/trans/intellectually disabled/physicall disabled/etc.

 

 

#Inclusivity2019 

Given the things Boubabi said prior to the first of many second chances..I'm surprised you support him then.

 

He was the epitome of not being inclusive with some of the comments iterated.

[gorlab 4,321]

Just now, Advantage said:

Given the things Boubabi said prior to the first of many second chances..I'm surprised you support him then.

 

He was the epitome of not being inclusive with some of the comments iterated.

 

Oh, I don't personally support or believe in that way of approaching the world at all. I just acknowledge that large parts of the internet, and society itself, have shifted to a politically correct/inclusive/anti-conflict way of thinking and acting, so I play along as the puppet I am.

 

The strength of this paradigm currently is stronger than it was ~2 years ago, stronger than it was ~5 years ago, and certainly wayyy wayyy stronger than it was during the time people like myself and boubabi were coming up in society / the internet. People can reform themselves. I highly doubt boubabi continues on the same path he was on pre-permaban, like he apparently did after his "first" permaban, if I understand the story correctly.

[Baozi 1,658]

2 hours ago, gorlab said:

 

Oh, I don't personally support or believe in that way of approaching the world at all. I just acknowledge that large parts of the internet, and society itself, have shifted to a politically correct/inclusive/anti-conflict way of thinking and acting, so I play along as the puppet I am.

 

The strength of this paradigm currently is stronger than it was ~2 years ago, stronger than it was ~5 years ago, and certainly wayyy wayyy stronger than it was during the time people like myself and boubabi were coming up in society / the internet. People can reform themselves. I highly doubt boubabi continues on the same path he was on pre-permaban, like he apparently did after his "first" permaban, if I understand the story correctly.

 

I'm one of the losers that voted no Mainly because I don't believe in rehabilitation. Once a thief always a thief etc...etc.. 

 

While a certain number of people can change if they are willing to, the majority will not and this is backed up by evidence of relapse in the criminal system. The guy had more chances than I can remember to rectify the situation but he never did because that's just the way he is. You sometimes just can't change douchebags in the world. They will always be douchebags. 

 

It's not like he accidentally pissed off people, he made a conscious decision to.

 

[Higgins 3,618]

10 hours ago, Victor said:

S58: Peak Boubabi era - Contraction

S65-present: 5+ seasons without boubabi - Expansion 

 

I know you wrote this for the likes but after looking around I found out the main difference 

 

~30 people used to claim welfare/pension

 

now

 

~100 people claim welfare/pension or get full TPE for doing articles on other sites/leagues.

[Higgins 3,618]

It’s crazy to read some responses here. You would think boubabi was the boogeyman. I guess 16 months of “propaganda” against a person with no one refuting any claims, true or false, can go a long way. I feel like some people have created a scary monster out of the 144p shadows that they vaguely remember what he actually did to get banned.

[Higgins 3,618]

6 hours ago, Tate said:

I have two questions for @Higgins when I read through this debate:

 

1. What makes this so important to you? Judging by your activity over the past year/2 you haven't been a full-time participant of this site (player wise) and what I find odd is why your persistent to bring back @boubabi to a place that you're not even as active in anymore? I lot of responses to this poll are, "I don't even know this guy."

 

Also, It would seem that the people who are active here and dealt with Boubabi are unanimous when it comes to the fact that they don't want him back, so I find it strange that you're fighting that so much when the evidence of his ban is clear, and you're also not as much as an active participant. I know why people like/liked Boubabi and want him around, I totally get that. But at the same time, the reason why he's not is very clear, so it's a strange battle to start and also odd to involve the league in it - IMO. 

 

2. Have you spoken with Boubabi? Do you know if this is what he wants? If he was unbanned, would he come back in full form? (multiple questions, same theme, main question is - have you spoken with Boubabi about this?)

 

**Disclaimer: genuine curiosity when asking these questions

 

Ok I left about a year ago and was pretty inactive last summer when I had no internet. Boubabi was banned in April and prior to that I felt alienated and GM of a team where he was the AGM and to be the next GM in line. He was one of a few people I could talk to about the league and plan about building another Titans dynasty in the S60’s. I lost interest, was spending little time on the site, and decided to just completely leave because like I said 35 times already - I don’t think he deserved an indefinite suspension for what he did. So why do I care? Maybe you’ll get it in a few years but I have big been a part of VHL for a decade so I’ll always have ties here regardless of if I have a player or no.

 

I’ve not just started this ‘battle’. I tried last summer but unfortunately my free time and internet availability plummeted. I agreed he should have been banned when he was. I was actually part of the commissioners when he was banned. Like I said above I think indefinite suspension is crazy and have argued against that since it occurred. 

[Philliefan 69]

13 hours ago, Nykonax said:

is this like an official referendum cause i meme voted yes

is this like a meme referendum cause i officially voted no

[Philliefan 69]

8 hours ago, omgitshim said:

I was fairly new here around the time he got this ban. The way he ranted and complained about every single thing and attacked people nearly made me quit the league entirely.

 

He's had multiple permanent bans. That should be enough to show that he is not a benefit to have around.

I feel like this should be all the evidence to vote no anyone needs. It's not worth having him around if he hurts the growth and prosperity of the league. I can't believe there is any discussion more than, "Could he really have improved? Has he?"

Players like @omgitshim stayed here in spite of him. Imagine all of the ones who haven't.

[Strooper99 30]

14 hours ago, DizzyWithLogic said:

I was not a part of the league when this happened and therefore don't feel I should vote.

Same

[frescoelmo 1,276]

Invite him to discord and see how it plays out for a few weeks, then reconsider

[NumberJ5 45]

I have no idea what's happening, but unban the guy....

 

 

....then re-ban after his first post, regardless of content.

 

[Devise 4,475]

4 hours ago, Higgins said:

I guess 16 months of “propaganda” against a person with no one refuting any claims, true or false, can go a long way.

 

I'll dispute this. Granted you did put it in quotes, but until a thread was brought up in Fan590 and Quik/Bek appeared to clarify the banning and the circumstances and debate with you about it, I don't recall Boubabi's name being posted much around the board.

 

Was there Discord conversation? Sure, but good luck time stamping or finding anything about that. The Discord is easily more lax for tolerance than the forums. Nonetheless the point remains. The league was not promoting an anti-Boubabi stance. We clarified the reasons he was banned, and people were free to see the posts of his that were on the boards. If anything, I'd argue the Boubabi banning and activity low of the league combined to rejuvenate the group of us that stayed committed, worked hard on systems, new ideas, the portal etc and helped us get the league to where it is today.

 

Ultimately I think that is the point @Victor was trying to make about league growth post his banning. The issue wasn't that Boubabi was so toxic that we couldn't grow. It's that all our energy was focused on him, on making sure people weren't antagonizing him and vice versa.  @gorlab Makes a great point about how despite it not being his cup of tea, interactions online and in general have certainly shifted over the course of the last five years. Again we aren't the beacon of that movement and I'd argue at times can be the opposite of it. I'm a pretty PC person and if I responded to everything that offended me on the Discord I'd be in arguments for days. Tolerance works both ways and I feel a lot of us "older" members who may be a bit more PC now as we age rarely get into fights with the trolls/kids on Discord. All we asked from Boubabi was not to target or harass individuals and let people all have fun with the league. In no uncertain terms, he literally told us that wasn't good enough. That he was going to do him and call out what he didn't like regardless. 

 

Ultimately though there hasn't really been any propaganda push for or against Boubabi. Other members were disciplined the odd time, but things have generally gone smooth sailing/have been pretty quiet. Everyone seriously affected/involved by the Boubabi situation either moved on personally, sometimes leaving the league like a Boom or a Kendrick, or are among the many of us with so much league stuff that we are busy in our day to day and we have put our energy into the league. If there has been any general sentiment among the league members regarding Boubabi before this it has always felt like a "glad to have moved past it focus on the league" approach. Not hatred. Not people crying foul. Not people being triggered. Hell Higgins your point about more members claiming welfare/league affiliate stuff even further hammers some of that home. That the VHL is far more of a online game now than it has ever been, and like most online games our goal is to be as inclusive as we can be to people who want to come play and spend their time here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[eaglesfan036 4,601]

People be writing media spots in here claim your tpe

[Higgins 3,618]

4 hours ago, Higgins said:

 

I know you wrote this for the likes but after looking around I found out the main difference 

 

~30 people used to claim welfare/pension

 

now

 

~100 people claim welfare/pension or get full TPE for doing articles on other sites/leagues.

 

To add to this:

 

Wills work on the portal is a big reason for more members and as needed more teams. Being able to have an organized site for stats, players, seasons, etc.

 

Its made player updates easier to understand and simming at least 10x easier than the ways it was not even 2 years ago.

—-

Its post like Victors that make it seem boubabi being banned made the league grow and causes new members to have a negative opinion formed.

[Molholt 2,185]

I voted yes because I don't want Gorlab to think I'm a loser. 

[Kyle 667]

Is that the guy who is Walmart Brand Koradek who picks fights with everyone?

[frescoelmo 1,276]

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Is that the guy who is Walmart Brand Koradek who picks fights with everyone?

 

probably the best comp ive heard so far

[STZ 5,360]

8 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Is that the guy who is Walmart Brand Koradek who picks fights with everyone?

 

Unban boubabi for his funeral..

[emidas 82]

just here so I won't get fined

[Jubo 1,839]

171

[Ahma 1,428]

bring him back!

 

 

I'll donate 1000 Finnish marks to get boubabi unbanned

Edited August 5, 2019 by Ahma

[eaglesfan036 4,601]

18 minutes ago, Ahma said:

bring him back!

 

 

I'll donate 1000 Finnish marks to get boubabi unbanned

What’s that in real money

[Joubo 77]

I voted yes because I didn't know what this was about. I thought it was someone's new player name. You can put me in the no column.

[Ahma 1,428]

3 minutes ago, eaglesfan036 said:

What’s that in real money

markka is an outdated currency

 

but it's like 165 euros